Towing An Oliver With This Vehicle

[Snake Eyes]

We have a 2022 truck which is the largest we could get since it has to fit into the garage (HOA) rules. We want to get an Oliver II

The truck is a V6 with 8 speed auto, heavy duty axles with 4:10 gearing, has a GVWR of 6150 with a payload capacity of 1600. The wheelbase is 137. It has a max tow package with larger brakes, upgraded coils for towing, added engine cooling, plus higher amp alternator. anti sway, electronic trailer brakes, Class 4 hitch, CVWR of 12,800 with tow capacity of 7650. Tongue: 765.

We would like to get the Ollie II due to the beds and a few other options. I ran some numbers. I took into into account all the tanks, propane and how full they would be going in and out from boondocking (using composting toilet) before additional cargo. We only carry about 600-700 additional pounds cargo in the trailer and only about 400 additional pounds in truck (after 290 pounds of people and tongue weight accounted for).

The numbers come out okay for the Elite II Keeping us down near 80% when all taken into consideration. 

Need second set of eyes. Do these numbers work?

While I would love to get a bigger truck (Titan, Tundra, etc) , that is not possible (no driveway allowed, cant buy one, and storage of the additional truck too costly where I live) so not looking for suggestions there. Maybe in the future.

No other trailer meets outer needs besides the Ollie II

Just want someone to look at my numbers and say whether this works.

[ChrisMI]

So the empty weight of the truck is 4.5k lbs?  Regular cab?  What brand/model are you looking at?

[Snake Eyes]

Yes. Regular cab. Truck bed is the short 5 footer Already have it. I kinda leave out brand and manufacturer as I would rather focus on the numbers rather than what folks think of different brands of vehicles since it is all about math and physics at this point 🙂

[Landrover]

My question no driveway parking of a truck HOA rules? It to expensive to store a truck in storage. Where do you plan on putting the Oliver? HOA rules allow RVs park in the drive way? Sorry off subject . If your new to trailers and trucks. My answer will be no it won’t work now. You will be very close on your limits. Being new to this you will be overloaded with everything you think you’ll need to carry. It wont make an enjoyable towing experience.  Not math my opinion.

[Snake Eyes]

So if I get what you are saying is if we have a Elinte II with a composting toi;let which is loaded from 4900 to 6120 pounds (1100 pounds for everything) which is down at 80% of our towing capacity of 7650, plus having about 700 pounds of payload left in the truck after people and tongue weight wont work? 

[Frank C]

Welcome to the forum!   For your payload number and tow weight/tongue weight numbers there are a few other things to consider that add up quickly.   You’re going to need the Andersen weight distribution hitch for your truck, and that hitch system weighs close to 50 lbs.   If you have a bed liner, cap or bed cover on your truck you have to count all that towards your payload limit as well.  Tools, a cooler full of food/drinks, camping gear, bicycles, etc. all add up.   And if you have your fresh water tank and gray water tank full that can be another 500 lbs of trailer weight. 

[Snake Eyes]

Thank you!!! No coolers, camping gear or bikes in the plans. No pets no children. We are retiring with this trailer at the lucky ages of 58 and 59, so we just want to boondock and enjoy the outdoors. Food and drink in trailer. We dont drink soda or beer, etc. Just water and tea, Think sitting or enjoying short walks. So two chairs and a small table.I did add in fresh and gray. Anderson hitch, thanks for weight. Bed cover is 90 pounds. Tools check that should be split between trailer and truck. That helps in estimating.  Let me know what else so I can run good numbers.

[ChrisMI]

11 hours ago, Snake Eyes said:

Let me know what else so I can run good numbers.

Since you already own the car I would drive it to the nearest weigh station loaded up with everything you would normally camp with and a full tank of gas. My guess is your available payload remaining will be a lot lower than you think.  IMO you are asking a lot of a vehicle that is more oriented towards off road driving vs hauling heavy loads long distances. However, as long as you’re a few lbs under the legal limit that should put your mind as ease.

Here is an example of a truck company that tricks the owners into thinking they have 1600 lbs of payload. You need to find this sticker, it will look very similar…

[Kraig]

Good Morning and Welcome!!

I'm a newbie to the Oliver Travel Trailer thing, but not to towing. Spent most of my life hauling livestock. From your numbers your truck can pull it. You see a lot of posts like this where people worry about their tow vehicle. In my opinion, the real question should be can my tow vehicle stop it in an emergency situation. I believe in overkill. I want much more vehicle than I need, but that is just me. If you are concerned now, you will be concerned on travel days. This concern will add much stress to your vacations or get away. Especially on these fine roads out there that are constantly under construction, no shoulder, tire debris that just pops up in front of you and those drivers that really shouldn't be driving. You know, the ones that stop in lane 2 of a freeway so they can try to get over to exit. So, in my opinion, if this is on your mind now, it wont go away. In my limited miles towing the Oliver, it tracks true, you frequently forget it's back there. I have already scared myself looking in the rear view and seeing someone on my tail, only to realize.... its just the Oliver :-). I haven't weighed mine full yet or I would give you those numbers to help you out for a general ball park. 

[Mike and Carol]

I towed with a small truck our first year, a 2012 Tacoma.  It worked.  We were on the edge weight-wise.  I drove super cautious, had to stop for gas a lot due to low mileage and smallish tank.  We found we wanted to carry more than what we could fit in the small bed.

Where do you plan to go?  If you are thinking about mountains you will not have a pleasant towing experience.  Any long trips?  Lots of variables!  Mike

[Townesw]

Hook up to a loaded trailer weighing about 5400 lbs and pull it around and see what you think. That should give you some idea. What I found is that numbers on paper or computer screen don’t take into account real life driving scenarios. 

[John E Davies]

Snake Eyes, I know that you don’t want to tell us the make and model, and that frankly is a little odd to me, but it really does matter. A turbo vs non-turbo, gas vs diesel …. the weight specs are important but so is the torque output and where in the rpms it occurs. A lot of naturally aspirated gas engines may look good on paper, but the reality is that the power happens high up, so under difficult towing conditions you find that you are struggling in low gears with the engine screaming. Even if it isn’t bad for the engine, it is bad for the occupants, and it is a very stressful way to travel. 

Also, the advertised tow ratings always have an asterisk - Here is the *  for the Ranger:
 

What that means is, the vehicle can easily pull a small boat to the lake, but put a tall and wide travel trailer behind it and add a 20 mph headwind, and suddenly you find that you don’t have enough truck. Note that the limit includes the tow vehicle itself! 

John Davies

Spokane WA

[Snake Eyes]

I appreciate everyone’s input! This is helping! The vehicle we have is a v6 naturally aspirated with 285 HP and 260 torque. 8 speed auto. The tow package for it increased the rear coil for towing and also put in larger brakes than the non tow package. We plan on wandering about the country in no hurry.

[Nancy K.]

https://www.keepyourdaydream.com/payload/

[Chukarhunter]

I faced a similar decision as you when I finally pulled the trigger on my 2020 Oliver II.  I purchased my current tow vehicle many years ago, choosing the most capable tow vehicle at the time that would fit in my low height urban garage.  When it came time to buy an Ollie, I could not find a better tow vehicle that would fit in my garage aside from a few $100,000 plus vehicles like BMW, Toureg, etc.   They wouldn't work for me because I need a very capable off-road hunting vehicle on many of my camping excursions.  My current vehicle has a GVWR of 5,720 lbs, 7,000 lbs towing capacity, 700 lbs max tongue weight, but only 1,120 lbs cargo capacity.  The engine develops 320 lb-ft of torque at 3,200 RPM.  It has a towing package and auto-height adjusting rear air springs.

From the numbers you give for your current tow vehicle, you should be safe towing an Oliver II and you will likely feel safe when towing, but only if you have the discipline to pay attention to how you load the trailer and how well the Andersen hitch is set up.  The sway control built into the Andersen is not really needed in normal towing, but could be invaluable in an emergency maneuver.  The real benefit of the Andersen hitch in a marginal tow vehicle is the ability to actually achieve the rated cargo capacity which requires precise weight distribution between the front and rear axles.  If you are under the GVWR of the tow vehicle when towing, but the rear axle is 300 lbs over its max axle rating (and the front axle is 300 lbs under its max axle rating), safety will be compromised and you will be out of spec even though you are at or under the vehicle GVWR. 

I suggest that you load your tow vehicle how you would normally drive without camping gear (i.e., driver, passenger and dog?) with a full gas tank, and then weigh it, recording the weight on each axle.   Then put a known wight (say 200 lbs) into the front of the truck bed and re-weigh to determine how much of the additional 200lbs falls on the front axle and how much falls on the rear axle.  Now look at the headroom left on each axle (how much below max axle weight rating).  Lets say for example that after weighing the vehicle with 200 lbs cargo in the truck bed, you have  800 lbs cargo capacity left (GVWR minus combined weight on both axles) with 300 lbs of headroom on the front axle and 500 lbs headroom on the rear axle.  If you expect to run your Ollie II with 600 lbs tongue weight plus 50 lbs for the Andersen hitch (total 650 lbs), you will need to shift at least 150-200 lbs from the rear axle to the front axle.  The Andersen can do that.  If you need to shift much more weight than that to the front axle, then your tow vehicle probably won't work (can't be set up safely) without running with an empty truck bed.

As many have said here, you will have issues associated with the under powered engine as I do.  That said, I have never found that to be a trip killer based upon the way I have used my Oliver.  I don't mind occasionally dropping to 55 mph on long hills and I have become used to the noise and poor gas mileage associated with  the frequent need to operate at the higher RPM of the engine's torque band.  I also typically tow almost exclusively at 5,000 ft altitude or lower.  If there is a 30 plus mile an hour headwind, I may just put off travel until the wind changes

I would never choose my current vehicle to tow the Oliver II and you wouldn't choose your current one either.  However, if it comes down to starting with the tow vehicle you have and upgrading later, or not getting the Oliver, my vote is choose the Oliver if the current tow vehicle you have can tow the Oliver safely.  Lot's of great new tow vehicles will come on the market in the next few years including SUV's like the 2003 Sequoia and hybrids and electrics.  I am very much looking forward to upgrading my tow vehicle, but it is not urgent.  

 

 

 

[BackofBeyond]

Payload will be a limiting factor - just depends on what you take with you in the truck. Yes  - It will be more than you think - esp over time. Secondly - as has been mentioned - just drive the TV with something comparable in tow. Give it a good workout in multiple situations - you will find your answer. As for the numbers - you are right near the cusp of not enough - doable - but if you go a lot, too many areas with varied terrain - you may find you're not quite satisfied. As JD said on paper it looks fine - ...."No hurry" across Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas, SD, .... No thank you- Warp speed for me......the Ollie tows just fine at 70mph.

The cats meow is a 3/4 ton 4wd, diesel - but I digress.

Good luck and happy trails.

RB

[Geronimo John]

On 2/18/2022 at 6:38 PM, Snake Eyes said:

 Let me know what else so I can run good numbers.

Ok Snake, you asked for it.  First our rather detailed total travel inventory of EVERYTHING we carry when out for 3 to 5 months up to 4,400 miles from "home".  Granted you likely will not be carrying two paraglider kits (Deduct 100 #), or maybe as many tools.  But you will find dozens of items you have not yet taken into account I suspect. 

Our Tow Vehicle ("The Beast") is a 2019 FORD F-150     3.5 EcoBoost, LARIAT, 4X4, FX4, SUPRCREW, 145” Wheelbase, with a 5.5’ Box.   Per Ford requirements we MUST use, and do always use the Anderson.  The Squat numbers without the Anderson is just for grins to demonstrate the impact on ride height.  So, below is how the inventory with my wife and I included and a full tank of fuel, wet tanks half full looks like:  

UPDATED ANDERSON BALL HEIGHT RANGE:  23.5” to 25” Below from F-150 during the Summer 2021

            Truck mostly loaded Ball Height:       24 ¾”

            Ollie hitched without Anderson:        22 ¼”               

            Ollie hitched WITH Anderson Set       23 ½”               Truck squat reduced to 1 ¼”

 AGRICULTURAL SCALE:  Summer 2021 Fuel Full, Truck Fully Loaded, Ollie Tanks 50% (This is our Highway Travel Loading)

               The BEAST                             OLLIE

            Front   3,000               Axles                 5,350

            Rear    3,550               Truck                 6,650

            Truck   6,650              Actual CGCW    12,000

                                                Max GCW        16,200

                                                Under GCW     4,200 POUNDS UNDER

Below are the Ford max loadings for our vehicle.  As you can see, we are well under all of them

F-150 Tow Info:       Max Payload = 2030 #            MAX Tow Rating = 12,700 # (With WDH)

                                  Front GAWR = 3,450 #            Rear GAWR = 3800 #

                                    GVWR = 7,000 #                      GCWR = 16,200 #

So, as you can see,  our Beast is not being stressed to the max.  I have towed our 2018 OEII 24,000 miles and have no regrets with the capabilities of our TV.  However, if I were another thousand pounds heavier, I think it would no longer be suitable for our mountain adventures.  

So, in summary for mountain boondocking:   Based upon 57 years of towing experience in general and having a CDL for moving heavy permitted loads, and having now four safe seasons with an OE2:

     A.  Your list of "Stuff" needs a major overhaul.

     B.  If you are going to use a compact truck to haul an Oliver, it will work well for the smaller 18 foot version in flatland.  But not for mountain boondocking.  It frankly eventually will put you into a dangerous situation.

Geronimo John

 

 

2022 Trailer Inventory and Packing List (16 FEB 2022 Version).xlsx