Water Leak Somewhere under the Kitchen Sink Area

[sakthorp]

I wonder if a water leak alarm would work at this location?  Some are battery operated but if there is a 2nd plug in the fridge outlet, could you use a electric version?  We have one of these at home, it lays in a metal tray under our HVAC system.

[Imelda]

I did remove the back panel under the sink and located the refrigerator plug. It does not look like any water got back there but I am pretty sure it is not GFCI plug. Anyway the latest is that I did order up a new faucet but when I pushed the sprayer hose connector back the leak was fixed. This was one of the suggestions in the previous posts that the sprayer hose line had come apart. I cancelled the new faucet and saved myself $150. See the attached pics. I believe what happened was the blue clip needed to hold the connector together was NOT installed at the factory (no blue clip could be found anywhere) and I am pretty sure if it just popped of then it would be laying under the sink area. NO where to be found. So one day the city water pressure blew it apart and started the leak. Now I need to get a blue clip to hold the connector together otherwise it going disconnect again. Anyone have any idea where I could get this blue clip? I am going to call Oliver service and see if they will send out one. I leave in 2 weeks.

And I still have to deal with the water rotted panels in that area. I guess the lesson learned here is that the kitchen drawers should be pulled out and this area checked for leaks and water damage as part of routine maintenance. 

l  

[Townesw]

Lowes has the blue clip

 

 

@Imeldadid you figure out how to use your faucet as a sprayer?

[Imelda]

Yes. It does have a sprayer. Just shows how much time I spend at my😃Oliver kitchen sink.

[Imelda]

All, latest update. The saga continues.  I did get a blue clip that Townesw showed in his pic but now that I have looked at it I am left wondering if the faucet I have didn't come with a blue clip. If you look at Townesw pic on the left and mine on the right they do not look like the same connectors. Mine on the left has push in clips holding it together and now I have a blue clip I am not sure if I can get it on. Also my connector looks longer. I have a neighbor that is pretty handy with plumbing that is going to take a look. Maybe the push in clips in mine were all that was intended to hold it together until they didn't. So far with the water pump the connector is holding but I am wondering if I hook up city water that has higher pressure, will it blue apart again. I have put the drawers back yet.  Anyone have any thoughts?

I submitted a ticket to Oliver on this issue but I need to follow up with a phone call to them and get this cleared up.  

Maybe I should just get duct tape and tape it together 😁

Or just not use the sink since it wasn't getting used as I didn't notice it actually had a pull down sprayer and someone pointed that out to me!

[Rivernerd]

28 minutes ago, Imelda said:

I submitted a ticket to Oliver on this issue but I need to follow up with a phone call to them and get this cleared up. 

When you call Oliver's Service Department, see if they can tell you which brand of faucet was installed in your specific Hull #.  I presumed it was a Delta with the blue clip because I saw the blue clip in the Townesw photo.  But your new photo demonstrates that the two connections are not the same.

Even Delta uses different clips for different faucet models, like the black one pictured here:

https://www.amazon.com/Delta-Faucet-RP32522-Quick-Connect-Clip/dp/B000UB9U96/ref=asc_df_B000UB9U96/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=167155689281&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=14985865155053231365&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9029558&hvtargid=pla-273474638602&psc=1

 

In addition to the "blue clip" models, I have also installed Delta faucets with this kind of black clip.  Maybe Oliver Service can send you in the right direction?

This incident, and the one referenced by Corvus above make me wonder if Oliver has installed some kitchen faucets that don't come with a clip, and thus the failures?  You might ask them about this.  If yours was a "clipless" faucet that failed maybe they would send you a replacement without charge?

I would also invest in a water sensor, like the one listed by Sakthorp, above.  I plan to place one of those under the kitchen sink in the new Elite II we are picking up in the fall!

If you go the tape route, I recommend Gorilla tape, cut into 1/2" strips and tightly spiral wrapped, over duct tape.

If you can't find a clip that fits, and you do end up taping to get you through your trip to Utah, I recommend you replace the faucet with one that includes the clip after you get home.

Hope this helps!

Good luck!  And, please report back with what you learn from Oliver Service.

[Frank C]

Not all quick connect faucet fittings use  a clip.  Some are just “Push to click” connections.   It’s possible your hose fitting just wasn’t installed properly when the trailer was built.   If you’ve pushed the connector back on until you heard or felt a click, it may be ok now.  But keep an eye on it. 

[Rivernerd]

On 3/19/2022 at 8:41 AM, Rivernerd said:

On 3/17/2022 at 9:01 PM, John E Davies said:

Normally you don’t put 120 volt AC electricity directly below plumbing connections. If it can’t go in a dry spot, it needs to be installed in a waterproof enclosure.

Makes me wonder if the refrigerator receptacle is GFCI protected, like other 120V receptacles in the trailer.  Does anyone know?  If it is, then the NEC may allow it to be located in a potentially wet area, like a receptacle next to a bathroom sink.

I hope you don't mind my answering my own question.  Watching the 2021 Legacy Elite II Full Delivery video again today, I was struck by this statement by Jason Essary at 52:07-52:14:  "Here at the front dinette we have the GFCI.  All other outlets in the camper do route through this, except for the outlet for the refrigerator."  (Italics added).

So, unless the outlet for the refrigerator is a GFCI, it is not GFCI protected!  IMHO, it surely should be in that potentially wet location.

Does anyone know if that refrigerator outlet is, in fact, a GFCI?

[Steph and Dud B]

8 hours ago, Rivernerd said:

unless the outlet for the refrigerator is a GFCI, it is not GFCI protected!

Huh. If not, replacing its circuit breaker with a GFCI breaker might be an easy mod (if there's a compatible GFCI breaker available). Or, is there room in there for a wet location outlet cover?

[Imelda]

All, I would like to get your feedback. See attached pdf. A neighbor who is in the building industry come over to look at my under-sink water leak problem. He said it looks like the weight on the faucet hose was getting caught behind the drawers under the sink (there is not clearance) and it’s a bad idea to have drawers here but Oliver should use cabinet doors like most under sink storage areas.  In my case, the white push in connector loosened and had a slow leak hence the plywood damage and finally it came apart.

Now I have the mildew cleaned up, he suggested I should put large glue on vinyl tiles on the plywood to stop any future water damage and get cabinet doors installed. This will leave a bigger storage area where I can put cleaning supplies, paper towels etc.  and have more access to check plumbing in area for leaks. 

 Also he said something needs to change on the location of the refrigerator plug as it is in a wet area and not a cfgi plug and is not safe. I am going to forward all of this to Oliver and have their quality people look at it. 

I recommend everyone that has this Oliver set up pull out the bottom drawer under the sink and check periodically for leaks. I would like to hear your feed back.

Under Sink Leak Hull# 642 .pdf

[Geronimo John]

On 3/18/2022 at 5:48 PM, John E Davies said:

I am going to investigate, and think about installing a stainless drip tray with a drain hose going out the bottom of the cabinet.

JD:  

Two thoughts back:

• A lighter and less expensive option would be a simple HVAC drip pan with drain fitting.  Would slope it towards the drain a bit.  Below is a sample for concept.   
• Due to it's proximity to the fresh water tank, any possibility that the drain could be tied to the water tank overflow line in such a way that a tank  overflow could not flow back to the drain pan?

GJ

 

[AlbertNTerri]

Alternative solution, what about getting rid of the faucet/sprayer and just have a plain faucet. I think I'd rather loose the sprayer feature rather than lose the drawers. Another solution could be to have a "box" behind the drawers for the sprayer hose to slide in...if there's room

We pick up our Elite II in a couple of weeks (quite excited) so my input is more hypothetical on this one

[ScubaRx]

On 3/19/2022 at 12:31 PM, sakthorp said:

I wonder if a water leak alarm would work at this location?  Some are battery operated but if there is a 2nd plug in the fridge outlet, could you use a electric version?  We have one of these at home, it lays in a metal tray under our HVAC system.

I expect that outlet is hot only when plugged into shore power. 

[SeaDawg]

15 minutes ago, ScubaRx said:

I expect that outlet is hot only when plugged into shore power. 

Yup.

[SeaDawg]

On 5/24/2022 at 12:06 AM, AlbertNTerri said:

Alternative solution, what about getting rid of the faucet/sprayer and just have a plain faucet. I think I'd rather loose the sprayer feature rather than lose the drawers. Another solution could be to have a "box" behind the drawers for the sprayer hose to slide in...if there's room

We pick up our Elite II in a couple of weeks (quite excited) so my input is more hypothetical on this one

You could always do an old school faucet like ours, and add an old school aerator/sprayer. 

[John E Davies]

FYI: … 

https://olivertraveltrailers.com/forums/topic/6722-how-to-replace-the-120-vac-refrigerator-outlet-under-the-galley-sink-water-lines-with-a-waterproof-junction-box/

John Davies

Spokane WA

[Rivernerd]

On 3/19/2022 at 11:31 AM, sakthorp said:

I wonder if a water leak alarm would work at this location?  

We have battery-operated water leak alarms under our sinks at home.  The batteries last a long time.  We plan to place one under the galley sink after we pick our Elite II in November.

[Rivernerd]

On 3/17/2022 at 9:01 PM, John E Davies said:

Normally you don’t put 120 volt AC electricity directly below plumbing connections. If it can’t go in a dry spot, it needs to be installed in a waterproof enclosure.

Oliver has improved its design to place the receptacle for the refrigerator in a dry location. In our Hull #1291, that receptacle is under the "floor" of the cabinet under the sink.  See attached photos.  The first photo shows the bottom of the cabinet under the sink with the plywood cover plate in place.  The second photo shows the receptacle underneath that floor, with the cover plate removed.  Note that in Hull #1292, there are two such cover plates:  one on the floor and a second on the vertical back wall.  The one on the floor allows access to the fridge receptacle.  The one on the back wall allows access to the sink plumbing.

These are significant design improvements, in my judgment.  I applaud Oliver for theses simple, but important, changes in their manufacturing process.

 

[Rivernerd]

Another Oliver improvement.  The original poster on this thread, Imelda, has this connection for the pull-down faucet in her 2020:

Our Hull #1291 has a more robust connection, which should be much less likely to pull apart.   See photo below.

Note:  If you happen to notice the drip on the side of the ABS p-trap in the photo (like I did, to my alarm), it is not a water leak.  I put my finger on it.  It is just excess ABS glue from when the fitting was glued together.

In sum, I am pleased to find that Oliver continues to tweak, and improve, a number of things that have come to their attention through service tickets. 

 

[Jim and Chris Neuman]

I found three areas under the sink of our Legacy 2 (hull 770) which were badly leaking, causing a mess and delaminated drawer cabinet plywood.  Two were located at both ends of the sink drain pipe trap/elbow.  The collar which tightens the compression seal on one end was not tightened during manufacture and was literally pouring water.  At the other end of the elbow the joint is a slip fit which normally would be glued together.  In this case it was not and the leakage, although more limited, was still significant.

At the compression fitting the collar was tightened, as it should have been at the factory, and the leak stopped.  At the other end of the trap I  obtained a silicone reducer sleeve, available at Amazon among other places, and used it to enclose the slip joint (hose clamp at each end).  This allows the elbow to be removed or replaced if necessary).

The other major leak under the sink was due to a split in the 1-1/4" overfill hose on the top of the fresh water tank.  This split was due to the installation of a hose which was far too short to make a gentle curve from tank fitting to the hull drain.  Instead of getting a hose of the right length, the installation crew bent the hose over nearly 70 degrees at the tank fitting, causing a split which poured water into the space between the hulls as the tank was filled.  In order to access and fix the split hose, it was necessary for me to cut an access hole in the bottom of the drawer cabinet which enabled me to get at the hose/barb.  I spliced in a section of hose long enough to allow a gentle curve in the overflow hose.

In general the manufacturing of these trailers is far superior to be vast majority of RV's on the market but, speaking as someone who spent his working life in manufacturing, you cannot at any point drop your guard and slack off on your QC measures.  In my case, the most superficial of QC inspections of these three potential failure points would have revealed their obvious leak potential.  As it is, my grading of Olivers QC has gone from a B+ to a C.

[Steph and Dud B]

1 hour ago, Rivernerd said:

The second photo shows the receptacle underneath that floor, with the cover plate removed. 

Ours is the same. Significantly better. I see they didn't attach the zip tie on yours either. Leaving ours off unless the plug works loose.

[Rivernerd]

On 8/6/2022 at 7:41 AM, Rivernerd said:

We have battery-operated water leak alarms under our sinks at home.  The batteries last a long time.  We plan to place one under the galley sink after we pick our Elite II in November.

Below is a photo of a Zircon battery-operated water leak alarm under the kitchen sink in Hull # 1291.  The second photo shows the drawer closed, with the water leak alarm still in place. 

So, the Zircon water leak alarm fits behind that bottom drawer.  It will provide peace of mind when using the kitchen sink.

[Liana]

On 3/18/2022 at 5:39 AM, Mike and Carol said:

Not sure when they started putting those in.

Our 2018 #333 has one

[Boudicca908]

On 1/16/2023 at 3:44 PM, Jim and Chris Neuman said:

I found three areas under the sink of our Legacy 2 (hull 770) which were badly leaking, causing a mess and delaminated drawer cabinet plywood.  Two were located at both ends of the sink drain pipe trap/elbow.  The collar which tightens the compression seal on one end was not tightened during manufacture and was literally pouring water.  At the other end of the elbow the joint is a slip fit which normally would be glued together.  In this case it was not and the leakage, although more limited, was still significant.

At the compression fitting the collar was tightened, as it should have been at the factory, and the leak stopped. 

I discovered a leak under my sink last week. Luckily a friend knew to check this area and mine was not tightened down either. I think that resolved my leak, but I need to check it more thoroughly.  Right now I can't access due to mobility limitations after hip replacement. 

[SeaDawg]

1 hour ago, Boudicca908 said:

Right now I can't access due to mobility limitations after hip replacement. 

I hope your recovery goes swiftly, and well.