Bill and Nancy's towing vehicle issues

[Bill and Nancy]

We tow with a 2022 GMC Diesel canyon and so far we haven’t had any issues. We love our truck it has a tow capacity of 7,700 lbs and we have the tow package. We picked up our trailer this fall and averaged 28 mpg on the way down and 22 on the way home pulling the trailer. I almost ran a red light on the way home and  with my wife yelling I got on the brakes and we stopped very quickly and under control. They stopped building the diesels in 2022 but you might find one used. We maintained 60mph over the smokies without any problems and navigated a bunch of twisties and the Diesel brakes worked as advertised. 

[Geronimo John]

4 hours ago, Bill and Nancy said:

22 on the way home pulling the trailer

That's amazing!  🙂

 

[ScubaRx]

I have a 2.8-liter four-cylinder diesel Canyon SLT and a 6.6-liter eight-cylinder diesel Silverado 3500. We only use one of them as our tow vehicle for our Elite II, Hull #050. The combo weighs in at just under 18K pounds. We just returned from our winter western sojourn with a little more than 5100 miles traveled. We drove on the flats, in the mountains, with the wind, against the wind and averaged 12.8 mpg. 

Pulling a 5-6K pound trailer with a light duty truck sporting a 2.8-liter four-cylinder diesel engine and still getting 22 mpg is, like@Geronimo Johnsaid, just “amazing”, in fact, it’s unbelievable, really unbelievable. 

[topgun2]

Bill & Nancy - 

How's that payload capacity working out for you?

Bill

[Geronimo John]

I actually averaged 99 MPG pulling Ollie!-

 

 

 

-Drum roll

 

 

 

 

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Oh, did I mention I was going down the TFL Ike Gauntlet in Colorado!

 

 

:GJ

.

 

Edited February 23, 2023 by Geronimo John
Had to change the location that was in a State on my Ollie Been There Map

[SeaDawg]

It's interesting.  They have a smaller diesel, and apparently drive 60, which most of us don't do. 

We don't get that kind of mileage, by half, with a 2008 hemi gasser, but who am I to say? We drive the speed limit. And have an older gasser.

I looked around.  Surprisingly good stuff reported from diesel canyon/ Colorado owners.

Not for me, but interesting read, especially if you already own one.

https://www.coloradofans.com/threads/diesel-vs-gasser-for-towing.422017/

[John E Davies]

Unexpectedly high fuel economy while towing is VERY suspect, but in certain conditions you can get it for short distances. For example going east (downhill) out of the Rockies with a 40 mph tailwind. But where it is generally low and flat, and without ferocious head winds… maybe once in a while.  That goes completely out the window when you tow at high altitude in hot weather. You can’t deny simple physics, for a long distance it takes a fixed amount of energy to move X pounds of load. Having a very light modern (aerodynamic) TV, strong diesel, correct axle ratio, 2WD, and extra light trailer with rock hard tires helps. What you save on fuel comes back to bite you in the butt in long term diesel maintenance and fuel/ DEF expenses.

And you have to hand calculate, not use the Lie-O-Meter on the dash. 22 mpg towing an LE2 …. we wish…

I keep thinking about the new Sequoia with its Hybrid power train, it gets great mpgs toodling around town in traffic or cruising, but when towing 6000 pounds, the mpgs drop back down to close to the average of 12-14, it’s that darn physics again. I can live with my LC200’s dismal 10 mpg towing/ 16 mpg city, it is not my daily driver. 

John Davies

Spokane WA

[Bill and Nancy]

On 2/21/2023 at 7:12 PM, Bill and Nancy said:

We tow with a 2022 GMC Diesel canyon and so far we haven’t had any issues. We love our truck it has a tow capacity of 7,700 lbs and we have the tow package. We picked up our trailer this fall and averaged 28 mpg on the way down and 22 on the way home pulling the trailer. I almost ran a red light on the way home and  with my wife yelling I got on the brakes and we stopped very quickly and under control. They stopped building the diesels in 2022 but you might find one used. We maintained 60mph over the smokies without any problems and navigated a bunch of twisties and the Diesel brakes worked as advertised. 

So after reading other peoples post I decided to see if I was accurate on what I had said. My wife accuses me of being a fisherman and exaggerating so I pulled my travel logs out and she was right once again. But I wasn't that far off. On the way down it was all flat highway driving straight through from MA to TN non stop. Stopping only to stretch legs use the bathrooms and get Fuel. We stopped 2 times for fuel and averaged 28.2 gallons on the way down. On the way back with the trailer we stopped for Fuel 6 times and averaged 18.86 MPG but it was also a lot of twisty mountain roads and a lot of stop and go traffic through NY city. So all and all the mileage was pretty good.

Bill   

[Geronimo John]

On 2/21/2023 at 2:12 PM, Bill and Nancy said:

We tow with a 2022 GMC Diesel canyon

With a posted curb weight range of 4036 to 4500 pounds, and a GCWL of 12,000 pounds you may be technically legal. 

But having an OE2, typically weighing in at say 6,000 pounds, you have very little safety margin in the best of circumstances. 

The two situations I would worry the most about having white knuckle experiences and little safety margin are:

• On a mountain going down hill and finding a sharp turn that was not on the radar screen. 
• On the interstate and being passed by big trucks in strong crosswinds.

That said, great MPG.   We hope your good experiences and luck continuers.

GJ

[Bill and Nancy]

I agree bigger is better but if we went bigger we out priced our selves on the truck. We used every penny we had to buy what we did and almost backed out of everything truck and trailer. But we only live once so we are giving it a try.  So far so good and we dont travel any distance other than picking up the trailer in TN. As soon as the snow stops I plan to go to the local cat scales and see where we are at.  The truck has a rated tow capacity of 7,700 pounds  Oliver told us its pretty hard to get the trailer over 5,800 pounds and we dont have any black water or generator so that helps. That leaves us  2,200 pounds to put in the truck.  Take off 580 pounds for the tong weight and 330 pounds for me and Nancy that leaves us 1,200 lbs of useful load, unless Im figuring something wrong. We travel light so that helps and we always drain our gray water so that takes off another 240 pounds. You're talking to two people who up until  now traveled the country on motorcycles so we travel light. So Ill keep you up to date on what we weight on the cat scales to see how close we are to the real numbers. We also have an Anderson hitch which I think is a must.  

Thanks for the insight

Bill 

[dewdev]

1 hour ago, Bill and Nancy said:

I agree bigger is better but if we went bigger we out priced our selves on the truck. We used every penny we had to buy what we did and almost backed out of everything truck and trailer. But we only live once so we are giving it a try.  So far so good and we dont travel any distance other than picking up the trailer in TN. As soon as the snow stops I plan to go to the local cat scales and see where we are at.  The truck has a rated tow capacity of 7,700 pounds  Oliver told us its pretty hard to get the trailer over 5,800 pounds and we dont have any black water or generator so that helps. That leaves us  2,200 pounds to put in the truck.  Take off 580 pounds for the tong weight and 330 pounds for me and Nancy that leaves us 1,200 lbs of useful load, unless Im figuring something wrong. We travel light so that helps and we always drain our gray water so that takes off another 240 pounds. You're talking to two people who up until  now traveled the country on motorcycles so we travel light. So Ill keep you up to date on what we weight on the cat scales to see how close we are to the real numbers. We also have an Anderson hitch which I think is a must.  

Thanks for the insight

Bill 

Bill:

I weighed my Elite II after stocking it up with all my camping gear, linens, dishes, etc. (no generator no food and no gray and no fresh water). I have a compost toilet so no black water. The Ollie weighed 5760 lbs with a tong weight of 480 pounds.

FYI, In my Owner's manual there was a description of a 3 step weighing process so you can determine the tong weight.

[ScubaRx]

11 hours ago, Bill and Nancy said:

I agree bigger is better but if we went bigger we out priced our selves on the truck.

This is exactly why we recommend buying the tow vehicle first and then matching the trailer to it.

We used every penny we had to buy what we did and almost backed out of everything truck and trailer. But we only live once so we are giving it a try.  So far so good and we dont travel any distance other than picking up the trailer in TN. As soon as the snow stops I plan to go to the local cat scales and see where we are at.  The truck has a rated tow capacity of 7,700 pounds  Oliver told us its pretty hard to get the trailer over 5,800 pounds…

Zero percent of the sales staff own an Oliver and only one has any appreciable real world experience in towing one. I wouldn’t count on that estimate.

…and we dont have any black water or generator so that helps. That leaves us  2,200 pounds to put in the truck. 
 

I’m not sure how you arrived at that number, and I’m not sure if you’re understanding how all this works. Your truck has a GVWR and a cargo capacity that has nothing to do with the trailer. Our diesel Canyon (just like yours) has a sticker on the driver’s side door post. Ours states a maximum capacity of 1367 pounds. This is the maximum amount of weight the truck can haul. From that number, you must subtract everything that was not installed at the factory, including, but not limited to: bed liner or bed cover, tongue weight, passengers and pets, Andersen hitch (required, in your case), all camping gear, chairs, grill, tools, tables, cooler, clam, clothes, food, cell phones and a box of tissues.

Take off 580 pounds for the tong weight and 330 pounds for me and Nancy that leaves us 1,200 lbs of useful load, unless Im figuring something wrong.
 

You are figuring it wrong, badly. Using our truck as an example with your stated weights, after tongue weight, passengers and the Andersen (66 pounds) our truck would have under 400 pounds of cargo capacity left. My toolbox and Dometic refrigerator alone would eat up all of that. I can just about guarantee you are very close to being overloaded.

 

We travel light so that helps and we always drain our gray water so that takes off another 240 pounds. You're talking to two people who up until  now traveled the country on motorcycles so we travel light. So Ill keep you up to date on what we weight on the cat scales to see how close we are to the real numbers. We also have an Anderson hitch which I think is a must.  

Thanks for the insight

Bill 

I realize this not what you want to hear but as most of us have already stated, this is not a good choice for a tow vehicle for the EII. It is underpowered and won’t provide you with a pleasant towing experience. 

[Bill and Nancy]

9 hours ago, ScubaRx said:

I realize this not what you want to hear but as most of us have already stated, this is not a good choice for a tow vehicle for the EII. It is underpowered and won’t provide you with a pleasant towing experience. 

I guess we will have to have this conversation a year from now because so far its towed the trailer without any problem. I may change my mind 2 years from now but its been perfect so far.

[katanapilot]

I too am amazed/impressed at the ability of the little 4 cylinder diesel.  Not sure it would do great up and down Monteagle, though. 

What I don't understand is the folks who say the Gen II 5.7 Tundra is not a great vehicle for towing an Elite II. We towed our Ollie from Atlanta to Alaska and back and the truck did great.  Only time we had any issue was a long, steep downhill from Jasper to Banff.  I think the trailer brake controller was a bit off, so we suffered from some brake fade. And no, I did not ride the brakes on the downhill.  

Would a 3/4 or 1 ton diesel do better? In some respects, absolutely - but they are expensive to purchase, maintain and feed. Pretty harsh ride unloaded too for a daily driver.

No idea on how the Gen III Tundra will do, but I suspect it will do pretty well once all the early production bugs and fit/finish issues are worked out. Better mileage (maybe) when towing.  Certainly better than the 5.7 not towing.

[Rivernerd]

1 hour ago, katanapilot said:

Would a 3/4 or 1 ton diesel do better? In some respects, absolutely - but they are expensive to purchase, maintain and feed. Pretty harsh ride unloaded too for a daily driver.

Our 2019 Tundra with 5.7L V8 and towing package is adequate for towing our Elite II.  But IMHO, it is not optimal, like a 3/4 or 1-ton gasser truck could be.  We will not find out until prices for heavy-duty trucks (hopefully) settle back down in a couple of years from today's obscenely-high price levels.

We get between 8 and 9 MPG when towing the Elite II with regular gas.  Not optimal, but for now, a sensible trade-off.

 

 

[AndrewK]

Why title this "...towing vehicle issues"?

As I read the first post from Bill and Nancy, they were commenting on how well their chosen tow vehicle was working out for them.

Just because many disagree, doesn't mean their comments aren't valid, from their perspective.

Perhaps "positive towing experience" would be a more appropriate title?

Andrew

[Frank C]

3 hours ago, AndrewK said:

Why title this "...towing vehicle issues"?

As I read the first post from Bill and Nancy, they were commenting on how well their chosen tow vehicle was working out for them.

Just because many disagree, doesn't mean their comments aren't valid, from their perspective.

Perhaps "positive towing experience" would be a more appropriate title?

Andrew

I think the "issue" being raised (and it's a valid issue) is that as Bill is doing his weight calculations and assumed safety margins, he is mixing up towing capacity and payload capacity.  They are not the same thing.  He has mentioned the towing capacity rating of 7,700 lbs. but then is using that number to calculate how much load he can put IN the truck instead of using the cargo/payload number from the truck door jamb sticker.

[MobileJoy]

16 hours ago, Bill and Nancy said:

The truck has a rated tow capacity of 7,700 pounds  Oliver told us its pretty hard to get the trailer over 5,800 pounds and we dont have any black water or generator so that helps. That leaves us  2,200 pounds to put in the truck.  Take off 580 pounds for the tong weight and 330 pounds for me and Nancy that leaves us 1,200 lbs of useful load, unless Im figuring something wrong.

This math doesn't seem right. I am not a Canyon owner, but I looked up the rated payload of the 2022 diesel version and it was stated (Car and Driver) as 1605 lbs. There should be a sticker (probably on the driver's door jamb) that states the actual payload rating for your vehicle. Remember to subtract the weight of any permanent accessories (such as tonneau cover) that you may have added. Using your figures of 580 lbs tongue weight and 330 lbs for people, this leaves 695 lbs of payload at the 1605 rating. The towing capacity and payload numbers are not directly related.

[MobileJoy]

27 minutes ago, Frank C said:

He has mentioned the towing capacity rating of 7,700 lbs. but then is using that number to calculate how much load he can put IN the truck instead of using the cargo/payload number from the truck door jamb sticker.

Sorry, didn't see this before my last post.

[rideandfly]

I really like the fuel economy of several diesel TV available. Also like the diesel lower RPM needed to reach maximum engine torque for towing. For us selecting a TV to be a daily driver, good overall fuel economy, and tow/load capacity to haul camping gear while towing Ollie. With the new breed of smaller displacement turbo charged gas engines, found the new Tundra 3.5L twin turbo engine to deliver good fuel economy unloaded and after several miles of testing getting over 15MPG towing Ollie in eastern US after finding the sweet spot for gear/RPM/MPG combination with cruise control on. Not as good of MPG as many diesels, but good gas engine low RPM torque performance reaching maximum torque at 2400RPM.

Used CAT scales to find our 1/2 ton TV curb weight after installing accessories. I did not document accessory  weights during installation. Installed side rails, folding hard bed cover, bed mat, mud guards, and Timbren SES rear suspension kit.

Weighed TV with all contents/cargo removed, accessories installed, full 32 gallon fuel tank, and no occupants.

Subtracted Curb weight from TV GVW to learn payload capacity.

Calculating your truck's maximum payload and towing capacity:

https://www.readingtruck.com/calculating-your-trucks-maximum-payload-and-towing-capacity

Edit:

I'm off topic again.

Retired from the railroad, never met an unhappy steam or diesel Locomotive Engineer. 🚂