2023 LE II Trailer Weight (Dry), all Oliver options, empty

[JDAstroPhoto]

A couple of days ago Jason did a walkthrough of a 2023 trailer on YouTube, he did it live, and I happen to catch it Live.  I only watched the beginning of it, because I was busy and was going to watch it later.  It, however, never got posted.  

Since I am in the market for both a Tow Vehicle and a LEII, I am doing some sizing analysis.  I did see enough of the trailer, to basically conclude it is loaded with all the Oliver options, this includes the Platinum Lithium package.  During the video he showed the tire and loading information sticker on the side of the trailer.  I screen grabbed it, because I want to use that information for my vehicle sizing.

Hence this post, these trailers are gaining significant weight from the factory.  I attached the screen grab, but since it contained the VIN number, for the future owner privacy, I decided to blank the VIN number out.  On the website the LEII trailer weight (Dry) is listed as 4,900 lbs and 490 tongue weight (10%)

This trailer is coming in at 7,000 lbs - 1,530 lbs = 5,470 lbs

If we go with full tanks for sizing purposes:

32 gallons fresh water + 32 gallon gray + 15 gallon black = 79 gallons,  79 gallons * 8.34lbs/gal (fresh water weight) = 659 lbs

Therefore with tanks full and the trailer completely empty the "loaded options" full wet trailer is sitting at 6,129 lbs.  At 10% tongue weight that is 613 lbs, 12% 735 lbs.  Realistically I think it would be easy to add 500 lbs of "things" into the trailer.  That fattens things up to about 6,629 lbs, 10% tongue weight 663, 12% tongue 795 lbs.  Add a generator and some gas in the aluminum basket at 75 lbs and with12% tongue weight you could be sitting at 870 lbs tongue weight.

I wanted to post this because I've read many posts from experienced Oliver owners that talk about Oliver trailer weight gain.  It really hits you, however, when you actually see the 2023 tire and loading information first hand.

[Mike and Carol]

Our trailer was about 4,900 lbs when they pulled it out of the factory for delivery in May 2016.  The Dexter suspension wasn’t available then.  Other than that, we had most options available to include four AGM batteries.  Mike

[JDAstroPhoto]

That's interesting.  The 640 Ah batteries from Lithionics weight 136 lbs.  AGMs are about 40 lbs each.  So 160 lbs.  So the Lithium batteries actually weigh less. 

So since yours had all the options, then where did all the weight come from?  The DC fridge has to be lighter than the 3 way fridge.  570 lbs is a significant amount.  The Dexter suspension?

[Farside]

7 hours ago, JDAstroPhoto said:

If we go with full tanks for sizing purposes

Are you assuming travel with all tanks full?  Wouldn’t most just have full fresh or full grey/black?

[Steph and Dud B]

You forgot the weight of the propane.

We only added a couple hundred pounds of gear to the Ollie: mostly kitchen stuff, food and clothes. The truck carries most of the heavier gear, including the genny and Clam.

We have traveled short distances with all tanks full. Generally, after dry camping and on the way to a dump station.

[Mike and Carol]

11 hours ago, JDAstroPhoto said:

That's interesting.  The 640 Ah batteries from Lithionics weight 136 lbs.  AGMs are about 40 lbs each.  So 160 lbs.  So the Lithium batteries actually weigh less. 

So since yours had all the options, then where did all the weight come from?  The DC fridge has to be lighter than the 3 way fridge.  570 lbs is a significant amount.  The Dexter suspension?

The factory weighed it with two full 30 lb propane tanks but empty holding tanks.  Options in 2015 were fewer than today.  We did have solar, a 2K inverter and a cell booster plus a few small things like extra outlets.  I haven’t looked at the option list lately, but I’m sure there’s quite a bit more.  

[Ollie-Haus]

23 hours ago, JDAstroPhoto said:

A couple of days ago Jason did a walkthrough of a 2023 trailer on YouTube, he did it live, and I happen to catch it Live.  I only watched the beginning of it, because I was busy and was going to watch it later.  It, however, never got posted.  

Since I am in the market for both a Tow Vehicle and a LEII, I am doing some sizing analysis.  I did see enough of the trailer, to basically conclude it is loaded with all the Oliver options, this includes the Platinum Lithium package.  During the video he showed the tire and loading information sticker on the side of the trailer.  I screen grabbed it, because I want to use that information for my vehicle sizing.

Hence this post, these trailers are gaining significant weight from the factory.  I attached the screen grab, but since it contained the VIN number, for the future owner privacy, I decided to blank the VIN number out.  On the website the LEII trailer weight (Dry) is listed as 4,900 lbs and 490 tongue weight (10%)

This trailer is coming in at 7,000 lbs - 1,530 lbs = 5,470 lbs

If we go with full tanks for sizing purposes:

32 gallons fresh water + 32 gallon gray + 15 gallon black = 79 gallons,  79 gallons * 8.34lbs/gal (fresh water weight) = 659 lbs

Therefore with tanks full and the trailer completely empty the "loaded options" full wet trailer is sitting at 6,129 lbs.  At 10% tongue weight that is 613 lbs, 12% 735 lbs.  Realistically I think it would be easy to add 500 lbs of "things" into the trailer.  That fattens things up to about 6,629 lbs, 10% tongue weight 663, 12% tongue 795 lbs.  Add a generator and some gas in the aluminum basket at 75 lbs and with12% tongue weight you could be sitting at 870 lbs tongue weight.

I wanted to post this because I've read many posts from experienced Oliver owners that talk about Oliver trailer weight gain.  It really hits you, however, when you actually see the 2023 tire and loading information first hand.

That's the reason I tend to think in terms of sizing for maximum trailer weight and then add in a good margin. It's easy for folks to get fixated on the trailer weight and what you will add into the trailer, but other gear loaded in the truck, passengers pets and misc. is significant in the overall load equation. I just like to have plenty of truck and not have to carry a calculator. With that I mean if you have say 3000 lbs of payload capacity on the truck and a tow capacity of say >12000 lbs, it's good to know how much you weigh total but your margins with and LE2 are substantial, and you don't have to worry about whether tanks are full or if you bought an item, say a grill or bike or something and have to worry about capacities. With plenty of truck you also know you are traveling with plenty of braking capacity, thinking mountains. 

For what it's worth BTW, it was explained to us on our last plant tour that Oliver is building the LE2 now with the same 5K axles as the LE1 uses. This is for cost and logistics/supplier streamlining. The LE2 still has the same load sticker on the side, but you do have increased actual axle capacity with two 5K axles under the trailer. Just a more robust and heavier undercarriage in this configuration. This works well with my thinking of having more than we need. Many RVs are built to be at axle capacity with full holding tanks and almost no margin for gear at all. Oliver is not doing this to say the least. 

With the trucks you are looking at you will have a lot of capacity beyond the Oliver. It's good to know where you stand but that will be the extent of your towing worries. 

[Steph and Dud B]

2 hours ago, Ollie-Haus said:

Oliver is building the LE2 now with the same 5K axils as the LE1 uses.

That's fantastic.

[mossemi]

On 2/26/2023 at 9:54 PM, Farside said:

Are you assuming travel with all tanks full?  Wouldn’t most just have full fresh or full grey/black?

We generally hit leave the house with 15 gallons of fresh water, 1/2 gallon of black and grey is empty.  But we also carry at least 5 gallons of drinking water split between the Ollie and the tow vehicle.

Mossey

Edited February 28, 2023 by mossemi
Typo

[Steve Morris]

4 hours ago, Ollie-Haus said:

For what it's worth BTW, it was explained to us on our last plant tour that Oliver is building the LE2 now with the same 5K axils as the LE1 uses.

Seriously?!? That'll make a disk brake upgrade a simple option, then. Cool!

[Ollie-Haus]

10 minutes ago, Steve Morris said:

Seriously?!? That'll make a disk brake upgrade a simple option, then. Cool!

Yep that was part of the discussion as well. The components on the 5K axles are more universally available and the brakes and hubs are a more standardized size than those on the 3.5K axles. Lug pattern matches more available wheels, etc. I was very surprised and happy when he told us about this change. All part of a push to streamline components, suppliers, inventory and parts management. He talked a lot about efforts to better organize the assembly process as it applies to component management. Obviously to improve everything and get more efficient in the process, reduce errors and probably increase throughput as well I'm sure. All positive. 

[CRM]

4 hours ago, Steve Morris said:

Seriously?!? That'll make a disk brake upgrade a simple option, then. Cool!

Definitely makes it easier to upgrade to disc brakes, though not sure it's worth it performance wise. I have 5.2k axles under my LE2 and braking performance is excellent, even when loaded near capacity.

[rideandfly]

Our 2015 LE2 #75 was one of the few that year to get 5.2K axles. Dexter drum brake assemblies work great and when we need to rebuild them, will probably go with disc brakes.

We keep the weight of our Ollie very light, works great for our style of camping. Use two 5 pound capacity LP tanks, one 31 pound Battle Born 100AH lithium battery, keep Ollie's spare tire in the pickup truck bed, and empty black, grey, fresh water tanks during travel. Our Ollie was not equipped with factory solar, we carry two 100W suitcase solar panels in the TV. The 6 gallon hot water heater has about 50 pounds of water. Our LE2 ready to camp weight is around 4940 pounds with 480 pound tongue weight. Checked rig/TV ready to camp weights with CAT Scales last summer.

[ScubaRx]

22 hours ago, JDAstroPhoto said:

That's interesting.  The 640 Ah batteries from Lithionics weight 136 lbs.  AGMs are about 40 lbs each.  So 160 lbs.  So the Lithium batteries actually weigh less. 

So since yours had all the options, then where did all the weight come from?  The DC fridge has to be lighter than the 3 way fridge.  570 lbs is a significant amount.  The Dexter suspension?

Depending on the brand, AGM's weigh an average of 65 pounds per 6 volt battery. That's actually 260 pounds for the 4 batteries. Lithium batteries are considerably lighter than lead/acid. I have 4 x 100Ah Battle Born's that weigh a total of 124 pounds cutting our battery weight in half from what it was when delivered back in 2014.

[ScubaRx]

On 2/26/2023 at 8:54 PM, Farside said:

Are you assuming travel with all tanks full?  Wouldn’t most just have full fresh or full grey/black?

This is very true. After all your fresh water has been used, it has moved to the gray or black tanks. The water weight will have increased slightly due to whatever effluvia we have added to it in the using.

I have found situations where our fresh tank is nearing empty, the gray tank is full and the black is OK. If we are in an area where it is permissible, I will empty the gray. Then filling the the fresh will leave us with a net gain of the weight of the black water, but ready to continue.

Through the years, I've heard many of us say we travel with a full fresh tank. We do and I think it is a good idea. You really never know when you may accidentally find yourself stuck somewhere with no access to water. Folks worry about the mileage hit from hauling the extra weight. Truthfully, according to Newton’s first law of motion, once an mass is in motion, it maintains the same motion unless acted on by force. In other words, after you've gotten the full fresh tank up to speed (using a force from the truck's engine) it does not require any additional force to keep it moving at the same speed.

[Mike and Carol]

1 hour ago, ScubaRx said:

Depending on the brand, AGM's weigh an average of 65 pounds per 6 volt battery. That's actually 260 pounds for the 4 batteries. Lithium batteries are considerably lighter than lead/acid. I have 4 x 100Ah Battle Born's that weigh a total of 124 pounds cutting our battery weight in half from what it was when delivered back in 2014.

Our AGM’s were 60+ pounds.  I replaced them with 3 Battle Borns.  So we went from about 260 pounds to less than 100.

[SeaDawg]

1 hour ago, rideandfly said:

Our 2015 LE2 #75 was one of the few that year to get 5.2K axles. Dexter drum brake assemblies work great and when we need to rebuild them, will probably go with disc brakes.

We keep the weight of our Ollie very light, works great for our style of camping. Use two 5 pound capacity LP tanks, one 31 pound Battle Born 100AH lithium battery, keep Ollie's spare tire in the pickup truck bed, and empty black, grey, fresh water tanks during travel. Our Ollie was not equipped with factory solar, we carry two 100W suitcase solar panels in the TV. The 6 gallon hot water heater has about 50 pounds of water. Our LE2 ready to camp weight is around 4940 pounds with 480 pound tongue weight. Checked rig/TV ready to camp weights with CAT Scales last summer.

It can be done, with work!

[Patriot]

5 hours ago, ScubaRx said:

Through the years, I've heard many of us say we travel with a full fresh tank. We do and I think it is a good idea. You really never know when you may accidentally find yourself stuck somewhere with no access to water. Folks worry about the mileage hit from hauling the extra weight. Truthfully, according to Newton’s first law of motion, once an mass is in motion, it maintains the same motion unless acted on by force. In other words, after you've gotten the full fresh tank up to speed (using a force from the truck's engine) it does not require any additional force to keep it moving at the same speed.

A great analogy Steve, and I agree 💯. When Kathy and I are traveling and towing our Oliver it is our second home. We always carry a full tank of water, our LP fueled Honda gen, bottled water, plenty of food and many of the creature comforts of home.
Needless to say we don’t travel light, but do travel ready to camp and live comfortably while exploring.
 

 

[rideandfly]

1 minute ago, SeaDawg said:

It can be done, with work!

Yep, we will eventually have a few Ollie projects to do, hope just one at a time. 🙂

The brake drums/shoes, 3 way refrigerator, and hot water heater are operating fine right now. Already installed the Dexter EZ flex system.

Have a MPPT solar controller to install next, slight weight gain. This will finish the solar charging project.

 

Bill

[SeaDawg]

@rideandfly, which mppt controller did you choose?

Sorry for the hijack 

[rideandfly]

31 minutes ago, SeaDawg said:

@rideandfly, which mppt controller did you choose?

Sorry for the hijack 

A Renogy 20A Rover Elite MPPT controller.  Future projects mentioned above will further reduce weight. 🙂

[ScubaRx]

On 2/26/2023 at 1:47 PM, JDAstroPhoto said:

....Since I am in the market for both a Tow Vehicle and a LEII, I am doing some sizing analysis.  I did see enough of the trailer, to basically conclude it is loaded with all the Oliver options, this includes the Platinum Lithium package.  During the video he showed the tire and loading information sticker on the side of the trailer....

 

I'm glad you are using this method to buy your outfit. You will be glad of it and will get the most for your money. Most people decide they want a trailer, pick one out and "hope" their intended tow vehicle will be sufficient. Hope is not a strategy. Study and understand the numbers. If you don't understand them ask questions.

Oliver's are not lightweight trailers. They never were. Most of the trailering world believes fiberglass trailers are light. They are incorrect. You can't have a tow vehicle that is too big. You may have more than you need but, in my opinion, that's perfectly acceptable. It took me 5 different tow vehicles to finally get there but now I can tow any trailer currently made and haul everything that either of us may ever need.

Towing an Oliver Elite II Travel Trailer can be an excellent experience.

Any vehicle other than a 3/4 ton or a 1 ton truck (or larger) will require an Andersen hitch to tow an Oliver Elite II to be safe and legal.

Any vehicle requiring an Andersen hitch is not as good as a 2500 or 3500 truck for towing or hauling cargo.

Using the Andersen is just subtracting 66 pounds from your Cargo Carrying Capacity in an attempt to adapt the wrong truck to the right trailer.

Don’t buy the wrong truck.

 

[SeaDawg]

That said, a 3/4  or 1 ton truck is definitely not a requirement. 

I'd guess the majority here tows with half tons. 

More power, the better, is true with any tow combination,  but, hey. If you already own a half ton with tow package, love the one you're with.

Lots of factors to consider. 

 

[ScubaRx]

3 minutes ago, SeaDawg said:

That said, a 3/4  or 1 ton truck is definitely not a requirement. 

I'd guess the majority here tows with half tons. 

More power, the better, is true with any tow combination,  but, hey. If you already own a half ton with tow package, love the one you're with.

Lots of factors to consider. 

 

Apparently, you missed his comment ("...I am in the market for both a Tow Vehicle and a LEII..."). I took that to mean that he is literally in the market for a Tow Vehicle, i.e. I don't have a tow vehicle, I need to buy one and I don't want to screw up and buy something that is too small where I'll have to learn to live with what I've got.

[JDAstroPhoto]

Yes, I actually already have a newer SUV 1/2 ton with the tow package.  The numbers actually work, but they are close to the edge and I am not really that comfortable with them. I entertained the idea of the smaller LE with my 1/2 ton SUV, but in the end I concluded I really wanted the LEII.  I also would prefer not to use the Weight Distribution Hitch.  I also think the shorter wheelbase is going to make it a little twitchy on the road.  So I talked myself into more capable tow vehicle with a longer wheelbase.  

I really appreciate all the responses, it is very helpful.