Who Might You Be?

[Steph and Dud B]

2 hours ago, Ollie-Haus said:

At least it didn't have this problem............🙄

But... the salesman said he could tow it just fine!

[Steph and Dud B]

43 minutes ago, taylor.coyote said:

SeaDawg,

I feel the content after snakeriveridaho should be taken down.

I'm going to disagree. I think it led to an important discussion about choosing an appropriate tow vehicle. An overloaded tow vehicle endangers not only its occupants, but everyone else on the road. If a thread like this encourages others to choose wisely, it's good for them and us.

If somebody had come into this thread with data that said the pictured vehicle was, in fact, rated appropriately for that trailer, we would have learned something there, too.

[Rivernerd]

6 hours ago, Steph and Dud B said:

An overloaded tow vehicle endangers not only its occupants, but everyone else on the road. If a thread like this encourages others to choose wisely, it's good for them and us.

When sizing tow vehicles to trailers, the issue is not just how fast you can pull the trailer up a steep hill.  It is overall control, particularly in emergency situations.  Undersized tow vehicles have smaller braking systems, which can make the difference between an accident and a near miss. 

On the road, I steer clear of big trailers which appear to me to be hitched to undersized tow vehicles, for that very reason.

Then there is the legal liability issue.  This Motor Trend article is instructive:

https://www.motortrend.com/features/1703-tow-ratings-and-the-law-discussing-limits-of-trailer-size/

[taylor.coyote]

we have ton's of content about choosing TV in this forum without making an example and making fun of these people. We do not need to alienate these people. 

[ScubaRx]

56 minutes ago, taylor.coyote said:

we have ton's of content about choosing TV in this forum without making an example and making fun of these people. We do not need to alienate these people. 

You are 100% correct that there is more than plenty of towing information both here and on the thousands of other forums and RV sites all over the internet. That “these people” apparently have not taken the advantage of this plethora of free information speaks volumes. They are either completely oblivious to the terrible danger they are placing on themselves and everyone else that shares the road with them OR they don’t care because everything seems to be “just fine” OR some combination of it all. 

I didn’t get the impression that any comment was “making fun” of them. If these comments have alienated them, I shudder at the thought of the way they’ll feel with a good lawyer bringing up the same points. 

[Chukarhunter]

On 3/10/2023 at 2:07 PM, taylor.coyote said:

we have ton's of content about choosing TV in this forum

I agree and it is all good advice.  I spent hours and hours on this forum agonizing over whether my tow vehicle could tow the LE II safely.  In the end, the many wise and experienced members of this forum convinced me that I could do so while staying within all limits as specified in my owners manual and placard on the door pillar.  The wise advice of J.D. actually gave me the confidence to pull the trigger and I am grateful.  I have been frowned upon in this forum more than once for my choice of tow vehicle but nobody on the forum has ever accused me of being a terrible danger to my family and everyone else on the road.  Should the mystery owners of the subject Kia ever identify themselves, I suspect this is what they might say…..

"Our very low mileage KIA (with tow package) is rated to tow 5,500 lbs with the Anderson hitch and 550 lbs tongue weight.  It has a cargo capacity of 1,325 lbs.  We spent a lot of time on this forum and paid particularly close attention to J.D.'s posts about towing with his Land Cruiser 200.  We noted that the wheelbase on the KIA is a few inches longer, and the front and rear track width are the same but the KIA has a lower center of gravity and the distance between the rear axle and the receiver is shorter on the Kia than the Land Cruiser.  Our tow package came with auto leveling rear shocks that allow us to always tow flat which increases safety without affecting rear suspension performance the way aftermarket air bags can.  We then noted that J. D. successfully travels with a tongue weight under 500 lbs and thought that if we followed all the guidance on the forum, we wouldn't be putting ourselves and others on the road in danger.

We are empty nesters with a small 20 lb dog.  The combined weight of my wife and I and the dog is 325 lbs, our hitch weight typically 520 lbs (with half full fresh water tank), and the Oliver loaded with provisions is 5300 lbs and we carry less than 200 lbs of cargo in the car.  So total actual payload is typically 300 lbs below the limit and gross trailer weight is 200 lbs below limit.  Engine performance is definitely marginal on long grades but we have no trouble maintaining over 50 MPH climbing over the Siskyou pass on a hot day.  We bought and use a tongue scale and occasionally weigh on commercial Cat scales to make sure we don't get careless or complacent.

We have thoroughly enjoyed our Oliver in the brief time we have owned it, and had no idea what a danger we have been to others on the road.  Now we are confused.  Where did we go wrong?"

Edited March 19, 2023 by ScubaRx
Italics added to make it clear that this is a “supposed question” (with a generous amount of conjecture) asked by the unknown owner.

[mountainoliver]

When we first purchased our Elite II in 2017 I owned a 3/4 ton diesel Dodge truck that was over 20 years old and with more miles on it than I cared to use for towing a new camper with. I purchased a new Toyota Tundra which was I my humble opinion was a mistake. Right away I started installing “band aids” on the truck that were to allow it or tow better. On level open roads there wasn’t an issue but in the hills and mountains I really noticed a deficiency. Anyway, I ended up trading that in on a 3/4 ton Chevy with the Duramax engine. I couldn’t be happier with this truck. Some say it’s a bit overkill, well maybe. Just last week while on our way home from a three and a half month trip I had to make an emergency stop on the highway from about 65 MPH. Overkill? Not really. The truck handled the trailer not the other way around. Just as it should be! We were able to stop quickly and in a straight line. The trailer didn’t even try to fishtail but just stopped straight. This told me that my brake setup for the trailer is right and that the truck has enough brake power to handle the load. Not overkill at all. It’s always about safe handling in emergency situations. 

[SeaDawg]

4 hours ago, taylor.coyote said:

SeaDawg,

I feel the content after snakeriveridaho should be taken down. Regardless of the TV choice, I'm sure these are very nice people that feel attacked and are the brunt of several jokes. My first TV was a light duty 1/2 ton and marginal to pull the LEII. I knew this when I purchased my trailer. I took one short trip as a test run to see if my truck would do the job. Although my truck was marginally qualified it became clear I needed a new TV.  A week after the test run, I purchased an adequate TV.  I had hoped my first truck would do the job because it was a nice truck and the price tag for more robust TV was a financial stretch at the time.  

I'm willing to guess several of the current LEII owners are on the edge of the TV's payload but have the power to pull the trailer.  We are not making fun of them. Please take down what is most likely received as unkind content . 

I think a lot of good points have been made. I don't think content should be removed, maybe split off to a new topic, but not removed.  The thread has wandered quite far from the original poster's intent. 

We have no idea of the specific trailer's weight, nor their equipment . Even the TV is an educated guess. 

I'd say, we could all lighten up a bit, since we're all working on conjectures.

 

 

[Steph and Dud B]

People should check with their manufacturer, but tow ratings are usually calculated with the tow vehicle empty except for a driver. Every other pound you add in the tow vehicle gets deducted from the tow rating. For example, a vehicle with a 4000 pound tow rating that contains a driver plus a 150# passenger, a 50# dog, and 100# of gear can tow a trailer with a maximum weight of 3700# without exceeding the specs.

This topic is beat to death in every RV forum. Do people exceed their limits? All the time. Are they all dead? Nope. Could it contribute to an accident in certain conditions? Probably. If that accident caused harm to others, could the opposing lawyer use that against them? I think so. Should you do it? That's up to you.

After 24 years of towing various trailers we have decided excess tow vehicle capacity gives us a buffer for unexpected situations and a more relaxed travel experience. I'm entitled to my opinion and so are you. If anything happens, either of us might have our opinions validated by a jury, one way or the other. We all have our own level of comfort with risks. But, information is always useful.

[SeaDawg]

Agreed.

[Geronimo John]

I agree.  

That said, there are Darwin Award Nominees all around us.  If they choose to be unenlightened, and become the Annual Award Winner, great ,,,so long as they are not around any of us when they do so. 

On the other hand, IF we can influence them in a kind way by presenting the reality with FACTS, and it causes them to rethink their safety margins... then maybe we have saved them from being that year's award winner.  And that is the whole point of all of the above, not to chastise or demean. 

At least, that's how I read the comments.  But then, I'm just another ROF (Retired Ole Fart)

GJ

[MAX Burner]

On 3/10/2023 at 9:47 AM, Ollie-Haus said:

At least it didn't have this problem............🙄

Hey, Ollie - OK, that's hilarious.  But as a previous AS owner, I've never encountered what looks like a fairly newish 25-foot Flying Cloud without Worthington tanks and a hitch jack!  How did they attach that rig to the VW?  Photoshop, maybe?  Dunno...  Still funny tho!

[Ollie-Haus]

21 minutes ago, MAX Burner said:

Hey, Ollie - OK, that's hilarious.  But as a previous AS owner, I've never encountered what looks like a fairly newish 25-foot Flying Cloud without Worthington tanks and a hitch jack!  How did they attach that rig to the VW?  Photoshop, maybe?  Dunno...  Still funny tho!

I'm sure it's total photoshop. Just wanted to lighten up the conversation. Struck me as funny. That front wheel drive car isn't going anywhere with that camper. 

[ScottyGS]

10 hours ago, Ollie-Haus said:

 That front wheel drive car isn't going anywhere with that camper. 

Once they strap the golf cart onto the front of the bug it'll be fine.  Just go slow down the mountains.