Check your frame, any damage? Welds good?

[jd1923]

I just thought I would make others aware of an issue I found, go figure just the week after we bought our older Oliver EII. I can't remember a time, when purchasing a used car or truck that I had not laid on the ground inspecting the bottom side, left, right and front to back! For some reason, when we first viewed our OTT listed locally for sale, I did not look underneath. I think I was enamored by the beauty of and cleanliness of it, along with I felt we were just looking, and I wasn't thinking I would spend this kind of money on a TT. Later we closed the deal over the phone. Paid for it 2 days later and the prior owner brought it to our home.

I was down low installing 6" hose extensions on all the hose inlets, and I thought it was a good time to inspect underneath and could NOT believe what I found!

Pictures to follow. I found 2 broken welds, curbside the first two right behind the wheels. OMG, my heart sunk! I called the prior owner. He thought I did it by overdoing the stabilizer jacks (not). He said he recently greased the Dexter components and he could swear the damaged was not there before (again, not). You could tell by the aluminum corrosion that these had broken some time ago.

I'm not asking for help here, as I found a guy in town who runs a welding shop and does contract welding for many metal artists in town. He repaired this, charging an hour $75. Most of the hour was setting up for aluminum welding and creating a heat shield. I believe he used MIG. I gave him a Ben Franklin and it was done prior to our maiden voyage a few weeks back.

I had no idea the aluminum welds would break at the contact point. The OTT welds must have been defective when the frame was built (edit: OTT likely welded this fine, later replies show this to be 80 PSI tire pressure). I called OTT service to ask about this and other questions, and the rep really had little to comment.

My reason for writing this thread, is to let others know and to suggest that if you haven't looked under recently, it is a good idea to inspect your frame soon and regularly. Thanks for reading.

Edited July 24, 2023 by jd1923
Edit is shown in post

[John E Davies]

I think it is very good that the sagging crossmember did not break the gas line. If you haven’t already, take a very close look at all the propane lines you can get to inside the trailer. Was there any damage to the fiberglass belly from hanging down unsupported?

Even Ollies can have bad problems. I am glad yours was relatively easy to correct.

John Davies

Spokane WA

[CRM]

I looked over every weld that I could see before purchasing my Ollie, but just went out again to recheck them all after seeing this post. Glad it was an easy fix.

[rideandfly]

Couple years ago, while working on a friend’s 2015 Legacy Elite, found some cracked welds. He took his Ollie to Oliver to inspect and re-weld.

Inspected our Ollie’s welds several times and at 5 years old during a service visit to Oliver, they inspected the frame, too.

So far no frame weld issues.

[jd1923]

9 hours ago, John E Davies said:

I think it is very good that the sagging crossmember did not break the gas line. If you haven’t already, take a very close look at all the propane lines...

The first thing welder said was, "That wouldn't be an LP line, would it?" I said, "Yeah, the tanks are off and I released the gas in the line." and he proceeded without worry. There is a little kink in the line, as you can see front of the T, but it holds pressure, so I left it as-is. Yes John, good observation. The vertical line is right there, going up to the kitchen (edit: Furnace and HWH) which could have been damaged. We camped 3 days, just after fixing this and if there was an interior leak, I certainly would have smelled it. I would think it would be difficult to eyeball/follow that line along its entire length. No sag, no fiberglass damage visible.

CRM and rideandfly, thanks for your comments. I'll bet there will be a couple hundred OTT owners getting under their frames this week!

Edited July 24, 2023 by jd1923
marked above

[John E Davies]

What were the tire pressures when you first checked them?

John Davies

Spokane WA

[jd1923]

34 minutes ago, John E Davies said:

What were the tire pressures when you first checked them? John Davies

Yep, they were 80 and I believe all former owners ran this trailer at 80 PSI. Do you think that alone could cause alum welds to fail? 

This does make good sense! And let's say the habit was to leave home or campsite, black and gray empty, fresh and HWH full, making the right-rear heavier and that's where the welds failed! 

Edited July 23, 2023 by jd1923
Added 2nd paragraph

[John E Davies]

Your suspension has at most 2” of upward travel before the ubolts smash into the subframe. Your early hull did not come with upgraded suspension, was that added at any time? Rock hard tires and no EZ Flex will really stress the frame, hull and your belongings. The first line of defense against road vibrations and impacts is flexible compliant sidewalls! Try 45 psi.

John Davie

Spokane WA

 

[Boudicca908]

Another important lesson learned through the forum. I sure do appreciate all the questions and answers here. 

I'm glad that you discovered and fixed the issue before too much damage, and that you were able to fix it for a reasonable fee. 

[SeaDawg]

Were it me, I'd be carefully inspecting springs, and shocks. Yours are 7 years old. We've had no issues with springs, but did replace shocks some years back, in our 2008.

We've never seen a cracked weld in our 2008, and we do inspect regularly. Not saying someone couldn't have had a bad day welding, which could be the case, but previous owner, running 80 psi, on rough travel, "could" have created your issues. Which could translate to other issues, with shocks and springs .

When we picked up our 2008 Elite, it was also set to maximum psi on the tires. We didn't think much about it til the microwave tried to commit suicide, almost jumping out of the cabinet, on a rough, snaking  mountain road. (And contents of drawers spewed everywhere.)

We have an Elite, st tires, so I have no recommendations for your elite ii with lt tires,,except that max pressure isn't it. Everthing has to work in harmony.

If you look back, there are dozens (probably) of posts on ideal tire pressure for the Elite II. 

I'm very glad you inspected, and got timely repair.  Good on you, for inspection. .

 

 

[Geronimo John]

3 hours ago, jd1923 said:

Yep, they were 80 and I believe all former owners ran this trailer at 80 PSI. Do you think that alone could cause alum welds to fail? 

For sure!

GJ

[jd1923]

Thanks again, John, SeaDawg and Geromino John and you're welcome Boudicca908. It's the reason I posted this.

We did a 3-day trip, just to check things out, but I'll be working a whole lot of maintenance next few months. We travel mainly Jan-Apr and it will be in excellent shape by then! In fact, we just had a monsoon, temps dropped 20 degrees and I pulled my TV in the garage for new headlights and a suspension/brakes check. Next job will be on the Oliver, pull the wheels, pressure-wash all the old grease away and whatever I can hit on the underbelly. Then remove all the Dexter parts I can for cleaning, pack bearings with new hi-temp grease, open the brakes, full M&R on everything! And I will certainly review the appropriate JD posts, yes.

The other thing I did today was to yank all the interior blinds off, OMG how dirty behind, and OTT installed new ones just 2 years ago. I brought them indoors and Chris will detail them and clean the inside of the Oliver windows, with the AC running of course, as I'm working other maintenance.

Yes John, I do have the Dexter EZ Flex, so I guess by your account it must have been upgraded. We are fortunate that two prior owners, brought this Hull in to OTT a total of 3 times. One spent $4K just 2 years ago, including the new blinds.

I already have them down to 60, and I'm thinking 48 PSI. I like that number. I agree that the load tables state 45 PSI is enough. I wonder, how many miles are on this trailer? All at 80 PSI, ugh.

[jd1923]

BTW, after looking again under the trailer, the vertical LP line runs to the HWH and furnace, not the kitchen. We did inspect this and the grommet had shifted up after the repair. BTW, in our older OTT, all, yes ALL of our grommets need replacing. We put a little dum-dum on the LP line to the furnace. All three grommets in our battery bay are bad, subject of a later thread. Thanks

[SeaDawg]

I doubt running max psi down level and clean highways does "that" much. Yours is the first post I know of, that has had weld cracks. I'm sorry for that, and I'm glad to encourage folks to inspect, as you have, and we do.

Running high psi down sh#t roads, at too high speed, can definitely result in some issues. Something prudent folks avoid. Reduce pressure, take it slowly, etc. A poor weld, in the first place, could also cause issues. Since your trailer was at Oliver several times, I think that would have been discovered. They found minor stuff I didn't even think about, on our few visits.

There's also a balance with LT  tires-- sidewall flex and roll vs softer ride.

Another reason I like st tires, with stiffer sidewalls. 

We all make our choices, and live with the results.

Your trailer will be fine. You're doing all the prudent inspections, and repairs as necessary.  You (nor I) can not possibly know all the history,  with two previous owners,  but we all do know this is one of the most rugged little trailers out there. And, you're not likely to go nuts on speed on crappy roads. 

The grime behind two year old blinds has a story to tell, on its own, imo.

 

[Boudicca908]

6 hours ago, jd1923 said:

the vertical LP line runs to the HWH and furnace, not the kitchen

Is there a diagram for that? I didn't see one in my manual. Does the LP go to the WH first, then the furnace, then back to the stove and fridge?

[Mike and Carol]

It’s nice to know that you are getting #113 back in to shape.  Regular cleaning and maintenance goes a long way with an Oliver, some 2016’s still look and feel new.  Mike

[MAX Burner]

30 minutes ago, Mike and Carol said:

Regular cleaning and maintenance goes a long way with an Oliver, some 2016’s still look and feel new.  Mike

@jd1923:

We couldn't agree more with @Mike and Carol, FYI.  We do a top/bottom, port/stbd, fore/aft cleaning inside and out after (and many times during) our trips.  It's a good way to mentally keep track of gelcoat issues, general conditions and anomalies that our OTT's acquire after/during use.  Like Mike mentions, such attention keeps our "older" Ollies looking and feeling like new....

You know you're doing it right when random comments by Ollie admirers say stuff like, "We can't believe your trailer isn't brand new!".  Just say'n....

"Ravel'n On!"

A & D

[jd1923]

On 7/23/2023 at 8:52 PM, John E Davies said:

Your early hull did not come with upgraded suspension, was that added at any time? John Davie

John, you and others reading might be interested in this. Your question got me looking at the old maintenance records. Our Hull 113 made its way back to OTT twice, April 2018 and May 2021. In 2018 it received the EZ FLEX upgrade, new Atwood furnace and another page shows "Replaced gas line to furnace and performed yellow jacket gas and function test." The LP line is wrapped in an automotive plastic wire loom. Our Oliver received major upgrades for 2018 (pic below).

I imagine the welds broke in the year after OTT serviced the trailer May 2021, because certainly they would have seen it. The breaks looked 1-2 years old and it must have come from the rigid tires at 80 PSI. The 2018 receipt also shows new Monroe shocks, the ones on the trailer are yellow, looking like Bilstein from a glance, but perhaps Monroe also used yellow paint. I will know when I service them and will remove the shocks to bench test, replace if worn.

I imagine prices would be 2x today!
(Tried 3 times to get this photo right-side up.)

 

[jd1923]

5 hours ago, Boudicca908 said:

Is there a diagram for that? I didn't see one in my manual. Does the LP go to the WH first, then the furnace, then back to the stove and fridge?

I have no idea of drawings yet, and would like to locate some too! I just got under the trailer again and noted where the line was going up, right where on the exterior you can see the furnace and HWH, which both us LP gas.

[SeaDawg]

@Boudicca908, since your trailer is several years newer, you'll have to contact Oliver (jason) for advice. I wouldn't trust older drawings.

[SeaDawg]

Also, and again, I'd say running max tire pressure, on paved normal roads, doesn't do much, good or harm.

Getting off the pavement,  especially on cr@p roads, running max tire pressure, at higher speeds,  can be shown to be problematic, for ANY  trailer. 

In a motorhome or a van, you feel the "earthquake " of a very rough road. But, the suspension is different.  Much kinder ride in passenger/tow vehicles. 

Your Ollie is tagging along, on one point (the hitch), and you can't "feel" what's going on, inside the trailer. Frequent Rest stops may tell the story.

 

 

[Boudicca908]

12 hours ago, SeaDawg said:

you'll have to contact Oliver (jason) for advice. I wouldn't trust older drawings.

So, people obtain diagrams by asking for them individually?  If that's the case, I'll definitely call and ask for them.

It would be really nice if Oliver posted diagrams with each year's manuals. It would be very helpful to owners and mechanics. If the diagrams are 'guidance' and not literal, they could put a statement on the diagram that says so. 

[mossemi]

5 hours ago, Boudicca908 said:

So, people obtain diagrams by asking for them individually?  If that's the case, I'll definitely call and ask for them.

It would be really nice if Oliver posted diagrams with each year's manuals. It would be very helpful to owners and mechanics. If the diagrams are 'guidance' and not literal, they could put a statement on the diagram that says so. 

I agree that it would be nice to have diagrams for every model year, but that’s not the case.  I’m lucky because my 2017 LE2 has a great manual, available in the Oliver University and after downloading it to my iCloud, it’s almost always accessible.  I would suggest to anyone that didn’t get one with their Oliver delivery or hasn’t been able to get the information that is available in a model specific format, to go ahead a look at other model years because the information could be the same or similar enough to guide you through the problem or repair you are working on.

 

On 7/24/2023 at 7:59 AM, Boudicca908 said:

Is there a diagram for that? I didn't see one in my manual. Does the LP go to the WH first, then the furnace, then back to the stove and fridge?

If you have an original refrigerator that Oliver installed and it runs on propane, the schematic below from 2017 may be of interest.  You can probably verify the propane line running from the propane box in front to the rear bumper by looking for the copper tubing below and outside of the trailer on the curb side.  And if you have an outside access panel at the bottom of your refrigerator, the penetration of the gas line is probably visible coming through the floor.

Mossey

[skalywag]

The single most important improvement I have done to our LE1 is the suspension upgrade to Grease Zerk Bolts and sleeves. I also run the (still OEM) tires at 59-60 psig and the interior at campsite arrival is intact.

[topgun2]

jd1923 - 

I turned that pic for you.

Bill