Electrical/Refrigerator

[Toby]

In prep for a trip to southern Utah next week I have been preparing the Oliver. I posted earlier about some water freeze issues (my fault, not the Oliver) that have been corrected. I also posted about issues with our Dometic refrigerator and thought our issues were related to the often maligned circuit board that provides power and ability to cool from AC, DC, or LP gas. With help I was able to get a new circuit board (sounds like the last in the world) and installed it this morning. I'm thinking now that it may not be the board but something else. Here's the symptoms: when I am connected to shore power and flip the ac circuit breaker in the Oliver to "on" it immediately trips a GFCI breaker located on one of our outdoor outlets...not the ac circuit breaker in the home breaker box. When I disconnect shore power and attempt to operate the refrigerator via the inverter no breakers in the Oliver trip but there is no power to the refrigerator. Looking for suggestions. Faulty refrigerator?  

[Steph and Dud B]

I assume you're plugging into a standard household outlet and using an adapter to convert your 30A Oliver cord to that outlet? Are all three prongs present on the adapter?

If you unplug the fridge from the 120v outlet located under the sink, does the house GFCI still trip when you turn on the fridge breaker? If no, the fridge has an issue. If yes, the issue is in the circuit.

Does the fridge run correctly on propane? On 12v?

[topgun2]

Have you checked to make sure that the fridge is plugged in - assuming that it is one of those models?

Bill

[Toby]

Thanks Topgun and Steph/Dud for ideas/suggestions. The rig is connected to shore power using adapter from 30A. All 3 prongs are present. I opened the vent panel behind the refrigerator on the outside of the rig and checked all connections. Turns out the 6 prong display connector (upper left on circuit board) was very loose. I firmly attached it and while I was in there I checked the 2 fuses on the circuit board...both were good and all the other connections  Spirits were high at this point. Went inside the rig and flipped the AC breaker on....there was power to the display panel and I toggled to auto. Spirits very high at this point. However, the refrigerator would not activate so I toggled on/off a couple times and tried to toggle to AC and DC...not auto. There were no lights under AC or DC on the display and  the unit did not operate. Spirits have peaked and are on the decline. By the way this is a 2018 Elite 2 with a Dometic model RM2454 refrigerator/freezer. Now I'm off to the internet to check the manual and see if there is some kind of a "reset". Ideas and suggestions still very welcome.   

[SeaDawg]

There were several versions of boards for the rm2454, and several control boards, though dometic kept the same model number. I'll look to see if I can find the old website,, but a call to dometic ((have model and serial number in hand) may be faster.

I feel your pain, and I am truly sorry.  My opinion, dometoc should have changed the model number, at least with a last digit or character. It's a total pita. One of the reasons we changed to a danfoss/dc compressor fridge. 

I hope that is not your issue, but might be.

Have you tried just running the fridge on lp?

[Toby]

Thanks SeaDawg. The panel light reads On and Auto but I can't toggle to AC or DC or Gas (I'd happily take any one). None of these indicator lights  are lit. Did not know about the multiple control boards. You are right....what a pita! I'll call dometic on Monday. My wife, who is an absolute all-star, is excited about the trip but not so excited about living out of a cooler for 3 weeks.  

[dewdev]

Toby

I also have a 2018 Elite II.

My procedure  may not help you. But, after the Ollie wakes up from it winter's nap, I have trouble getting the Dometic refigerator started. I usually have to play with the on-off switch button, depressing the button multiple times and sometimes just holding the button in. So far, after a little time doing this the refrigerator finally starts and the lights on the control board come on. 

On another subject, in the future, you might want to  add your year and hull # to the signature line, so people can see what Ollie you have and can help you better.

[MAX Burner]

On 2/25/2024 at 11:08 AM, dewdev said:

and sometimes just holding the button in.

FYI: This is how we get our fridge back online after being turned off between trip - maybe a 3 to 5 second hold, then the default lights illuminate...  Good luck, @Toby!

[ADKCamper]

Not sure if this helps in your situation, but I will describe our experience with a 20A GFCI outlet at our home.

When plugging in our 2018 Elite to a GFCI'd outlet in our garage (using an adapter as OP has described), it sometimes but not always trips the GFCI. By the process of elimination we have deduced that this behavior is somehow related to the Progressive Dynamics charger/converter mounted in the fuse/breaker panel under the side dinette. If we turn off the breaker corresponding to the charger/converter, the GFCI no longer trips.

I don't know if this behavior is related to some issue within the converter module itself, or if there's some "sneak current path" elsewhere in the trailer that is enabled when the converter is powered up.

This issue does not arise when plugged into a 30A shorepower source as these are typically not GFCI'd (but may be at some point in the future as newer NEC changes related to RV shorepower connections come into effect).

Our plan is to wait until our existing AGM batteries need to be replaced, when we will change to lithium batteries and replace the converter with a lithium-capable one.

[Geronimo John]

Progressive Dynamics PD4045 LiCSV Upgrade.docxProgressive Dynamics PD4045 LiCSV Upgrade.docx

40 minutes ago, ADKCamper said:

Our plan is to wait until our existing AGM batteries need to be replaced, when we will change to lithium batteries and replace the converter with a lithium-capable one.

Some of the  2018 OE2's PD Converters have a LI switch that allows use with Litho's.  Below is a picture of the LI/LA switch and a hard copy of John Davies procedure to upgrade the PD if you don't have the switch as well.

[dewdev]

2 hours ago, Geronimo John said:

Progressive Dynamics PD4045 LiCSV Upgrade.docxProgressive Dynamics PD4045 LiCSV Upgrade.docx 1.55 MB · 5 downloads

Some of the  2018 OE2's PD Converters have a LI switch that allows use with Litho's.  Below is a picture of the LI/LA switch and a hard copy of John Davies procedure to upgrade the PD if you don't have the switch as well.

Geronimo John:

Thanks for Posting John Davies procedure.

 

[ADKCamper]

Thanks for the link... my PD converter does not have the LI/LA switch. I could replace it with one that does. I've been debating whether it makes sense to move the converter out of the fuse/breaker panel to a separate device. This *might* be something like a Victron Phoenix Smart IP43 Charger so that I could control & monitor converter-based charging activity with the Victron app.

Apologies for the thread creep...

[jd1923]

20 hours ago, ADKCamper said:

Thanks for the link... my PD converter does not have the LI/LA switch. I could replace it with one that does. I've been debating whether it makes sense to move the converter out of the fuse/breaker panel to a separate device. This *might* be something like a Victron Phoenix Smart IP43 Charger...

Our even older hull likely does not have the LI/LA switch either, though I have not yet looked to verify. Given this and looking towards 600 AH Epoch batteries for 2025, it may be time for us to upgrade the Xantrex 2KW Inverter to 3KW!

You could spend $400 +/- with tax for the charger alone: Amazon.com : Victron Energy Phoenix Smart IP43 12-Volt 30 AMP 120-240VAC, (1+1) Output Battery Charger with Bluetooth : Sports & Outdoors

Or you could also trade-up to a 3KW inverter/charger for $1,100. Amazon.com: Victron Energy MultiPlus-II 120V, 3000VA 12-Volt Pure Sine Wave Inverter and 120 amp Battery Charger : Automotive Hmmm, so many choices today!

[Steph and Dud B]

On 2/27/2024 at 11:34 AM, ADKCamper said:

When plugging in our 2018 Elite to a GFCI'd outlet in our garage (using an adapter as OP has described), it sometimes but not always trips the GFCI. By the process of elimination we have deduced that this behavior is somehow related to the Progressive Dynamics charger/converter mounted in the fuse/breaker panel under the side dinette. If we turn off the breaker corresponding to the charger/converter, the GFCI no longer trips.

I don't know if this behavior is related to some issue within the converter module itself, or if there's some "sneak current path" elsewhere in the trailer that is enabled when the converter is powered up.

This issue does not arise when plugged into a 30A shorepower source as these are typically not GFCI'd (but may be at some point in the future as newer NEC changes related to RV shorepower connections come into effect).

Our plan is to wait until our existing AGM batteries need to be replaced, when we will change to lithium batteries and replace the converter with a lithium-capable one.

Same thing here, and we have the lithium enabled Xantrex converter/inverter. Every few months it trips the 20A GFCI in the garage. No specific environmental changes that I can infer, it's just sitting there. Nothing else plugged into that circuit, either. Now I've added a small green LED nightlight on that circuit that I can see in the security camera. Every once in a while I check in to make sure it's still on.

[jd1923]

Like having an older home where the only GFCI outlets we have are in the bathrooms. I ran 125' of 8 AWG burial cable, installed a 60A service panel in our shed, and a 10 AWG feed to a 30A outlet for our RV pad. Y'all should think about doing the same, being able to run A/C during summers, no cable overheating issues, etc.

Often multiple GFCI outlets are run on the same household circuit which could be the cause. But basically, a GFCI outlet is not designed to feed a RV 30A power panel!

[topgun2]

5 hours ago, jd1923 said:

ur even older hull likely does not have the LI/LA switch either, though I have not yet looked to verify.

I'd guess that if hull #117 doesn't have it (and it doesn't) then yours will not have it either!

Depending on your intended use - don't forget that the old charger will still work with LI - it simply will not get the LI's to full.  That is another benefit of having the solar - because - it will get the LI's to 100%  There fore, unless you really have to have them at 100%, there is not necessarily a rush to get a new charger.

Bill

[jd1923]

1 hour ago, topgun2 said:

I'd guess that if hull #117 doesn't have it (and it doesn't) then yours will not have it either!

Depending on your intended use - don't forget that the old charger will still work with LI - it simply will not get the LI's to full.  That is another benefit of having the solar - because - it will get the LI's to 100%  Therefore, unless you really have to have them at 100%, there is not necessarily a rush to get a new charger. Bill

Thank you, Bill. This makes so much sense! When I upgrade to LI, I really only need to change the configuration on the Blue Sky solar charger set for LI batteries. Given 90% of the time we are not plugged in, and live in sunny Arizona, any LI upgrade will get to 100% by solar on most days. Yes! 😊 The LI upgrade at $2K will be enough and I can wait on other related upgrades, e.g. the PD charger and the 2KW Xantrex inverter, until one fails. Thanks again.

[SeaDawg]

Good luck. @jd1923

Likely,  your solar won't keep up with battery capacity,  unless you severely curtail power consumption. 

As in, no microwave,  no inverter, etc.  even in Arizona sun.

We'll look forward to your reports. Weekend camping, no issue.

[jd1923]

We are closer to weekenders than full-timers for sure. Many here have travel-trailered more in the last 1-2 years than we have in our lifetimes. We go for at most 4 weeks annually and 4-5 shorter trips, hopefully more when fully retired.

We just spent a week in cloudy/rainy days in Yuma, the Q and West Valley. We used the Xantrex 6-8 hours a day for kitchen appliances and TV at night and occasional quick microwave. We got down to 64% after 5 days out (the last 3 nights we had hookups).

I calculate that if we instead had 600AH LI batteries, the monitor should read 78%, all things being equal. The usage is in the storage, the recharge is in the solar, generator or shore power. If I can get 80% of 600AH LIs, vs. 50% 450AH of LAs, we can camp at the same use rate 2.13 times longer! Good sun, chargers or connections will of course extend what's onboard.

It does take patience to watch the monitor read 64%, thinking it could quickly go lower. Would be nice to experience LiFePO4 batteries! 🤣 Are you with LI worried when it reads under 50%? You shouldn't be.

[ScubaRx]

On 2/27/2024 at 3:53 PM, ADKCamper said:

...so that I could control & monitor converter-based charging activity with the Victron app.

Apologies for the thread creep...

You can do that with what you already have.

[Rivernerd]

9 hours ago, jd1923 said:

Are you with LI worried when it reads under 50%? You shouldn't be.

No.   We have the Lithium Pro Package, which includes 390 Ah capacity (3 Lithionics 130Ah).  The Lithionics have Battery Management Systems (BMS) which will automatically turn them off if they reach about 10% State of Charge, protecting them from overdischage.

For many years I used 12V deep cycle AGM batteries to power my CPAP machine on wilderness river trips.  I had to monitor them closely to avoid discharge below 50%, to avoid damaging them.  Now I use LiFePO4 batteries with built-in BMS on wilderness river trips.  They are much lighter weight and yet provide a greater discharge range.

That experience persuaded us to spend the extra $$$ on the Lithionics package for our Hull #1291.

[dewdev]

12 hours ago, SeaDawg said:

Good luck. @jd1923

Likely,  your solar won't keep up with battery capacity,  unless you severely curtail power consumption. 

As in, no microwave,  no inverter, etc.  even in Arizona sun.

We'll look forward to your reports. Weekend camping, no issue.

SeaDawg:

How do you get the forum members name (with blue shading) into a follow-up post, like you have in your post here?

Thanks

[jd1923]

I'm not @SeaDawg of course, but I can chime in @dewdev since my name was used. You just start typing the @ symbol followed by the name you want, and it will show up in a drop-down menu to select. The name is then tagged when used and the forum member will be notified which is a great feature.

[ADKCamper]

14 hours ago, ScubaRx said:

You can do that with what you already have.

Not sure how to do that, other than to take the total charge current (from the smart shunt via the Victron app) and subtract (in my head... I hate to do that LOL) the present solar charge current (again, from the Victron app) to compute the converter charge current... assuming there are no 12v loads active at the same time (which would result in 2 unknowns in the equation SolarChargecurrent + ConverterChargeCurrent -Active12vloadCurrent = TotalChargeCurrent).

[jd1923]

1 hour ago, ADKCamper said:

Not sure how to do that, other than to take the total charge current...

Agreed, I always see one Amp number, the net of -A being used and +A from any charging source. It would be nice to read Amps in and out individually.

We have an old shunt as part of the Blue Sky solar charger installation. So, if I was good at reading their panel, I imagine it reads solar charge data alone. You can install multiple shuts to segregate systems for this purpose. I installed a Victron SmartShunt at the battery ground, so this reading is a net IN and OUT Amps.

The pic shows an afternoon reading, shore power unplugged, solar has the batteries fully charged. There is a net +0.75A of the incoming solar, less the outside courtesy lights (we leave them on 24x7 to deter rodents), electronics and other parasitic draw.