Tire pressure confusion - Legacy Elite 2 POLL

[Hokieman]

7 minutes ago, CRM said:

FYI, your VIN is still showing. Written vertically on the right side.

Thanks, just edited it out. 

[CRM]

On 8/20/2022 at 11:16 AM, John E Davies said:

IF YOUR PLACARD IS DIFFERENT FROM THIS PLEASE POST A PICTURE.

Mine shows 65psi, but then again, it looks like my labels were made on a late Friday afternoon. Missing tire sizes and incorrect GVWR and GAWR ratings. Edit- And even "V.I.N" is spelled incorrectly. 😄

[BBL]

On 8/22/2022 at 6:28 PM, John E Davies said:

Only by referring to the manufacturer’s load chart was he able to determine the ideal pressure for his new set of LT 10 ply tires. He decided on 67 psi for his 9000 pound AS.

Correct, and the best way to determine this is to WEIGH your trailer unloaded and fully loaded for travel. When I ran Goodyears on the Airstream I was happy to see they produce a comprehensive chart each year for their RV "Special Trailer" ST tires.

I recommend the CAT SCALES app for your phone. When you go to the scales, open the app, put in the number and drive on. Once your weight is taken, you will get a notice on the app and an email with your scale certificate. It will show total trailer weight, rear and front TV weight and combined weight. Compare these to what your tire chart states for your trailer and TV and adjust accordingly.  There is NO one-pressure-fits-all answer.  55 psi is probably a very good choice for the current tires given the "likely" loaded trailer weight.

GREAT CONVERSATION, this definitely needs to be understood by everyone who tows!

Brian

rv_inflation.pdf

 

Edited October 20, 2022 by Brian and Brandelyne
spelling

[Geronimo John]

On our 2018 OE2, I run 50 PSI on highway and 30 PSI on unpaved roads.

It would be useful to know if others are doing something simular.

BTW, having a Dewalt 20V air compressor on board makes my life SOOOOO easy now.  

GJ

[John E Davies]

9 hours ago, Geronimo John said:

On our 2018 OE2, I run 50 PSI on highway and 30 PSI on unpaved roads.

It would be useful to know if others are doing something simular.

BTW, having a Dewalt 20V air compressor on board makes my life SOOOOO easy now.  

GJ

I will air down to about 35 psi on the trailer if it is really nasty potholed rutted for a long distance. But folks need to be aware you have to air back up immediately when the speeds get back up to normal. Sometimes it may be hard to find a trailer sized pullout when you get back to a highway…. Keep that in mind too. 

John Davies

Spokane WA

[Hokieman]

On 10/20/2022 at 10:30 AM, Hokieman said:

I just submitted a Service Ticket requesting a newer decal with 55 psi tire pressure recommendation.   I also recommended all previous owners be sent a decal, and a tech services bulletin to explain why.   Others might wish to do the same, perhaps OTT will respond to our request.

I finally got a response to my ticket from 10/20/22 yesterday.  The request for a replacement decal was denied with a polite note explaining that the tire pressure on the trailer at time of production met the production tire specifications.   They recommend I consult OEM tire manufacturers specifications for the loaded trailer weight.   Which is exactly what many of us have already done, and the reason I have been running 50 psi since Delivery Day.   The ticket was closed. 

[Geronimo John]

Trailer's have been wearing out tires for ages.  They can run in an amazingly wide range of tire  pressures successfully.  However running above or below that "Sweet Range" and the tires will make you quite angry.  So bottom line we are talking about where in the Sweet Range we should run our OE2's.  I submit that all the recommendations above are less than optimal and should not blindly be used.   So before you get out your flame throwers, ponder the below first.  I believe that within the "Sweet Range":

A.  Tires run at a lower pressure likely have a better ride for Ollie, but they also require greater power to run down the highway.   

B.  Tires run at lower pressure when damaged get to flat quicker than ones at a higher pressure.  This results in less opportunity to get pulled over before you start trashing the highway with dismembered rubber tire components.

C.  Tires run at higher pressures are more prone to puncture from pot holes and road hazards.  Especially so when off road.

QUESTION:  So GJ, how do you run most efficiently, at a pressure to be the most flat resistant mode, while giving Ollie the best ride, and provide my family the best safety margin should you have a puncture?  

Answer:  You can't have it all at the same time.

QUESTION:  OK GJ, what tire pressure do you run your Ollie at?  

Answer:  Depends.   If I am on the interstate or good roads running at highways speeds I use 50 PSI.  When I go off road, I air down to 30 PSI for most conditions.  If I am transiting soft ground and need maximum sink resistance, then down to 20 PSI. 

QUESTION:  But GJ that's a PITA isn't it? 

Answer:  Nope.  I use a TPMS and an IR temperature reader to keep a watch on bearings (With hub caps removed as JD suggested), have a quality calibrated air gauge, and have a 20V Dewalt compressor.  Takes me less than 12 minutes to air up/down four Ollie tires between highway and off road mode.

Point is that each of us have different trailer weights that can vary depending on our loads at the time. We also travel different paths that our trailers must endure.  SO, is it  "OK" to say I air my trailer tires to XX PSI?  Sure if it is in the sweet spot.  It may be OK, but it sure is not optimal for all purposes as your trailer weight varies, as do your road surfaces and speed.

Hence, my recommended Ollie tire pressure is.... It depends.

GJ

[John E Davies]

That is primarily an illustration of why a Jeep owner “airs down” when going onto loose terrain. Wider footprint, more grip, less spinning and trail damage, at the expense of slightly lower ground clearance... It also shows why the tires’ rolling resistance goes up when you deflate your Ollie from 80 to 40 psi. It’s interesting to see that the footprint doubles in area between 40 and 15, but the change is a whole lot less dramatic above 40 psi.,.

 My sweet spot is 42, because I do minimal Interstate cruising, but lots of back highways and less that ideal road surfaces, AKA POTHOLES. Hit a 3 or 4 inch deep pothole at 50 mph with rock hard tires and you will think your trailer exploded. This shows a main arterial route here in Spokane, where we get lots of freeze thaw cycles.

It also shows why the center stripe paint gets worn off so fast, all those studded tires on cars avoiding the holes 

BTW one of the local weather reporters calls the arteries “artillery” routes. It’s a hoot.

John Davies

Spokane WA

[Geronimo John]

JD:

Great graphic.  I intuitively knew what was happening with air pressure and tire contact/drag forces, but had not seen it visually.

thanks for sharing.  It also makes a great justification for not going over 50 PSI on our OE2's unless it is way loaded.  For us in the 6,000 pound group, doing so would appear to be little drag reduction with increased down sides as discussed above.

Would be totally cool if OTT could run the OE2 over a glass plate at these pressures to see how close it mimics the Jeep visual.  My gut says it would be really close.

GJ

 

[Wayfinder]

Once again I would like to thank @Hokieman for putting me onto this thread and everyone who participated on this thread.  I had missed it when you guys are actively creating it. 

With my new Michelin Agilis Crossclimates going on the trailer next week, they will still be brand spanking new by the time I make it to the rally, let the inspection begin. 😉 I have doubts that I will be able to tell any difference from my original 2015 Michelin LTs, while driving.  It sounds like I will be just fine staying within 45 to 55 PSI, no matter how heavy I load the trailer and maintaining 7000 lbs, unless I load up with too much good Lagar.   🙂 

Many of us continue to learn from these forums.  Thank you all!  It's really appreciated by me.

 

[routlaw]

On 8/20/2022 at 9:16 AM, John E Davies said:

 

This has not yet happened, here is the one I made for the older tires (I run mine at 42 psi, with an approximate 6000 pound trailer weight.):

From the 2022 Owners Manual

This does not surprise. From the chart above one could even assume a tire pressure of 40 and perhaps even 35 might be adequate given the weight of a 6000 lb trailer. From various other online charts I've come across they tend to be approximately the same as above. Thanks

[Geronimo John]

On 5/4/2023 at 6:37 AM, routlaw said:

This does not surprise. From the chart above one could even assume a tire pressure of 40 and perhaps even 35 might be adequate given the weight of a 6000 lb trailer.

From the charts I agree.  But...

If we are running 34 or 40 PSI with a tire minder, we would need to set it lower to alarm.  I run our OE2 @ 50 PSI.  This gives my tire minder an opportunity to alarm earlier, for the express purpose of giving me more time to find a safer place to get off the highway.  Yes, this is a compromise of sorts, but far less than what John D. and I tussled OTT to reduce their required PSI of 80 a couple of years ago.   

[MAX Burner]

19 hours ago, Geronimo John said:

I run our OE2 @ 50 PSI. 

Same here.  For the same exact rationale that @Geronimo John explains.  

Keep in mind - the "generic" TPMS, configured correctly, will allow you time to find a safe place to come to rest if it's a "slow leak."  OTOH, if you've just experienced a catastrophic tire failure, you may need to rely on the "good" axle (if you've got an LEII) to get the rig to a safe stopping location; or if single-axled - just enough time to stop safely where you're at.  We've had the catastrophic blow-out scenario on a secondary road in southern Florida 15 or so years ago - two axles, no TPMS, never knew it happened until stopping many miles down the road.  The second axle saved the day.

[ScubaRx]

A few years ago, out of curiosity, I took one tire off the port side of the Oliver and let the jack all the way down till only the one wheel and tire was supporting that entire side of the trailer. This was back when I still had about 270 pounds of AGM batteries in the box. The remaining tire was nearly touching the wheel well cover. If you had a catastrophic loss of a single tire on an LEII with AGM batteries you might should expect some damage to that cover. Were it to get into the wheel well proper and go through the fiberglass, you could end up with a mell of a hess. It might be to your advantage to check this at home under a controlled situation so you will have some expectation of what will occur should you ever lose a tire rapidly.

Something to consider when trying to determine the best pressure to run in the tires. You can run low to support the actual weight assuming four good tires, take a chance on the odds and hope for the best or you could run a little higher pressure to mitigate some of the odds.

I've never considered "hope" to be a valid strategy.

[Wandering Sagebrush]

On 3/22/2023 at 6:15 PM, Geronimo John said:

JD:

Great graphic.  I intuitively knew what was happening with air pressure and tire contact/drag forces, but had not seen it visually.

thanks for sharing.  It also makes a great justification for not going over 50 PSI on our OE2's unless it is way loaded.  For us in the 6,000 pound group, doing so would appear to be little drag reduction with increased down sides as discussed above.

Would be totally cool if OTT could run the OE2 over a glass plate at these pressures to see how close it mimics the Jeep visual.  My gut says it would be really close.

GJ

 

An interesting observation on this deflation graphic.  Note that while the width of the contact patch does increase as tire  pressure is reduced, the significant increase is in the length of the patch.  Maybe all those old loggers running pizza cutter tires knew what would give them the most traction in the woods.  
 

Happy Holidays

[Geronimo John]

13 hours ago, ScubaRx said:

I've never considered "hope" to be a valid strategy.

Steve:

Good test for visual understanding of the problem.  Not much clearance between our tires and fiberglass. 

For discussion purposes, let's say are well away from any assistance.  We hit something that destroys both right side tires.  We only have a single spare tire.  What would you do?  I would:

• Try to slow down ASAP, deploy 4-way flashers, and quickly pull over if reasonably safe to do so.  Deploy a visual warning well behind the trailer.  Likely my wife with a red T-shirt and flag.
• Grab lug wrench and loosen both tires lug nuts slightly.
• Use Oliver jacks to raise the trailer tires off the ground on the blown side.
• Remove the blown tires/rims.
• Place dunnage between the springs and frame to try and keep clearance when lowered.  ( I have 11 each 2"X6" short boards in a milk crate that I use for leveling OE2)
• Install spare tire and lower jacks so that the axle is supported by the dunage and frame
• Proceed slowly to a safer location and deal with the two blown tires.

What have I missed?  What would you do differently?

GJ

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

2 hours ago, Geronimo John said:

Steve:

Good test for visual understanding of the problem.  
<snip>

What have I missed?  What would you do differently?

GJ

 

John, I’d also dump the water and possibly the gray water to reduce overall weight.

[Geronimo John]

Great suggestion, where possible!  

May as well look at filling up the back seat of the Crew Cab with heavy pantry or tools.  

Driving slowly with flashers to a better location is one to be sure to keep top of mind.

Maybe fire off the rear view trailer camera and monitor any traffic impacts the situation may generate while slowly retreating to a safer location.

Maybe pressurizing your spare tire to it's max pressure to take on all the load it can.

Maybe consider the condition of your spare tire?  Maybe it should be mounted on the opposite side if it is old but pretty and the other side has newer tires.

What else?

GJ

 

[ScubaRx]

7 hours ago, Geronimo John said:

Steve:

Good test for visual understanding of the problem.  Not much clearance between our tires and fiberglass. 

For discussion purposes, let's say are well away from any assistance.  We hit something that destroys both right side tires.  We only have a single spare tire.  What would you do?  I would:

• Try to slow down ASAP, deploy 4-way flashers, and quickly pull over if reasonably safe to do so.  Deploy a visual warning well behind the trailer.  Likely my wife with a red T-shirt and flag.
• Grab lug wrench and loosen both tires lug nuts slightly.
• Use Oliver jacks to raise the trailer tires off the ground on the blown side.
• Remove the blown tires/rims.
• Place dunnage between the springs and frame to try and keep clearance when lowered.  ( I have 11 each 2"X6" short boards in a milk crate that I use for leveling OE2)
• Install spare tire and lower jacks so that the axle is supported by the dunage and frame
• Proceed slowly to a safer location and deal with the two blown tires.

What have I missed?  What would you do differently?

GJ

 

I'm really glad you raised this issue. After playing with the tires as I described above, I (dumbly) really never thought about how to handle the situation should/when it ever occur(s). You bring up a very good and logical solution using your spare blocks of wood as dunnage between the springs and the frame. I think I'll try my test again, this time paying closer attention to what the clearances are but, this should work. I may make some custom blocks (two would be all you'd need) for the worst case scenario.

I'm sure you thought of this, but I most certainly would put the spare onto the rear axle.

[Geronimo John]

18 hours ago, ScubaRx said:

I may make some custom blocks (two would be all you'd need) for the worst case scenario.

Where ever I park Ollie, I use my 2" X 6" X 11?" blocks, and I never just use one.  My purposes are to shorten the amount of jack travel, and to act as a slip point should the trailer be moved in error.  Having a shorter jack sticking down increases the odds that at least two of my blocks will slip against each other and save my jack and rear jacks as it falls.  

Point is if I were to take two of them and router out a pattern of the frame and spring plate, they likely would stay in place for our scenario.  So, please measure them up for us when you get around to thee retest.  Sure wish I had a wood router!!!!

18 hours ago, ScubaRx said:

I'm sure you thought of this, but I most certainly would put the spare onto the rear axle.

Nope I had not thought of that one.  Moving the support point back increases tongue loads and decreases load on the axles.  Good idea.  Rates right up there on "Using your very best tire out of the five (or possibly 9 for some TV's) on the lame side. 

So, adding another item for the list:  Will you TV spare tire fit your Ollie?  Good to know in advance.  If so, what rating and CONDITION is it?  Better than Ollie's?

At some point I'll take all the above suggestions and make a check list out of them and repost the group in a condense version.  By laminating them and placing the half sheet of paper on top of the spare (Sorry John D.) the check list would be where you discover it (again) in your moment of most need.

Ok after that brief diversion: What else should we be thinking we should have in mid for the scenario?  
 

GJ

 

Edited December 26, 2023 by Geronimo John
Added CONDITION OF YOUR TV SPARE TIRE

[Geronimo John]

On 12/25/2023 at 6:55 PM, ScubaRx said:

I'm sure you thought of this, but I most certainly would put the spare onto the rear axle.

Brilliant !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Geronimo John]

On 11/4/2022 at 2:52 AM, John E Davies said:

I will air down to about 35 psi on the trailer if it is really nasty potholed rutted for a long distance. But folks need to be aware you have to air back up immediately when the speeds get back up to normal. Sometimes it may be hard to find a trailer sized pullout when you get back to a highway…. Keep that in mind too. 

Good reminder for a shameless plug for my third most favorite tool.  This with a 5 AH battery and the case live in our Ollie wardrobe closet.  I pull it out when going rogue off-road with the TV.... just in case it is needed way out back.  

Highly recommend this air compressor for mobile use:

GJ

[topgun2]

50 minutes ago, Geronimo John said:

Highly recommend this air compressor for mobile use:

Sure is a bunch less expensive than the Viair too.

[mossemi]

1 hour ago, topgun2 said:

Sure is a bunch less expensive than the Viair too.

Since that price is for the bare tool only, I doubt it's a bunch cheaper.  Since I'm not an old Milwaukee guy, just a Milwaukee guy and do not own an DeWalt tools, I did buy a Viair several years back.  And the only time I needed it was to help a neighboring camper air up his bicycle tires.

Mossey

 

[Jps190]

1 hour ago, mossemi said:

Since that price is for the bare tool only, I doubt it's a bunch cheaper.  Since I'm not an old Milwaukee guy, just a Milwaukee guy and do not own an DeWalt tools, I did buy a Viair several years back.  And the only time I needed it was to help a neighboring camper air up his bicycle tires.

Mossey

 

Yeah...My Viair has been used maybe twice since I bought it.  One time "might" have been to blow up an inflatable water toy.  This is what keeps holding me back from installing onboard air.  The big use for onboard air would be to install a train horn for left lane drivers. 🤣

 

John