Made in USA leaf springs

[SeaDawg]

I'd add in, our 2008 has been very well maintained,  and updated, from a wonderful base hull, same as every Oliver since.

Outside camping season, our Oliver, along with our boats, gets regular inspections,  maintenance,  and upgrades as we (and our wallet) deem fit. 

In the Ollie world, our trailer is a classic. Our sailboat is a classic. Our ski boat is a classic. 58 tr3 is a classic. Our garages are full of "classics."  Heck, At this point, I'm one, too. 🙂

our motto is, take care of your stuff, and it takes care of you.

Edited March 13 by SeaDawg

[jd1923]

13 minutes ago, SeaDawg said:

... In the Ollie world, our trailer is a classic. Our sailboat is a classic. Our ski boat is a classic. 58 tr3 is a classic. Our garages are full of "classics."  Heck, At this point, I'm one, too. 🙂

our motto is, take care of your stuff, and it takes care of you.

Our family too, newest vehicle on the lot, besides a 2016 Oliver, is our restored 2008 GX470. I drove a '67 Wildcat for a decade (1985-1994), a 1975 Alfa Romeo Spyder, for two decades (1977-1998). Bought my first 1984 Goldwing standard new in 1986, sold it in 2004, missed the bike and bought a second one same model in 2008, still in the garage, picture above.

Our son will inherit our Oliver and the other many classics on the property, and he helps regularly with the maintenance of all.

A 1958 TR3, wow and nice. I had a British Racing Green 1967 TR4a for a short while! I'm learning that most of us here are true "Classics!" 

[Geronimo John]

5 hours ago, jd1923 said:

The warranty WILL NOT HELP YOU broken down in Alaska or even 20 miles from home!

No, but the list of considerations posted for two OE2 flats will sure apply to a set of broken springs as well.

Plan ahead and execute the plan.....At least until the first round hits.

GJ

Edited March 13 by Geronimo John

[AlbertNTerri]

Is ALCAN just a manufacturer or do they also do installation?

[hobo]

9 hours ago, Mountainman198 said:

I completely understand where you are coming from. 

However, coming from a rock crawling and jeeping background I can understand the warranty period for their products as their main business is building custom suspensions for people who will take their 4x4 rigs to places like Moab and do things to them that a teenager wouldn't do to a stolen rental car. Over time and as ALCAN gets more into the RV suspension business, perhaps their RV spring warranty will split from their off-roading line and fall more in line with that which we are used to seeing in our world.   Until then and knowing what their rock crawling customers do to their products and that the springs I purchased for my trailer are built with the same raw materials and using the same process as their offroad springs I am confident of my purchase. 

I absolutely agree.  ALCAN is noted for their off-road suspension work and in that environment, things will be tested beyond reasonable expectations and obviously fail occasionally.  

I can fully appreciate why a business like ALCAN couldn't afford to guarantee their products not to fail over the long term when used for those purposes.  The potential liability alone would put them out of business.

That said, I fully expect that if any of these springs failed within a few years, Mike would make good on them similarly like Oliver Trailers made good on a serious electrical failure in my trailer well after the warranty period had expired. 

There are lots of reasons/excuses to not upgrade to the better (costlier) springs but there is one reason I did:  and she sits next to me when we're towing our trailer down the highways .

Money well spent IMHO. 

[MAX Burner]

Good discussions and points of view regarding this "OTT Spring Issue".   What a great group!!!

Speaking with Mike, I asked about ALCAN's track record, and can confirm @Patriot's comment that indicated they've never had a set of springs returned.  Don't think Dexter can make that claim.  But that's not the only reason why we're upgrading our suspension with ALCAN 5-packs.

OBSERVATION:  There may be a couple "OTT owner" camps here - there are those owners that purchased  their rigs new from Oliver and those, like us, that bought used.  Those buying new know exactly where their rigs have traveled, they know the level of maintenance performed over the years, and they know what's been broken, replaced, and upgraded.  

OTOH, those owning 2nd/3rd-hand Olivers have absolutely no clue how their treasured rigs were treated by previous owners, at least we sure don't.  That said, especially concerning running gear, we don't take any chances and err to the side of safety.  Short of taking our springs to an NDA lab for analysis (not a cheap date, either) - we've decided to go with the ALCAN 5-pack upgrade for peace of mind.

For those that choose not to have their springs NDA-inspected, having a spare in the bottom of the tool box might be a prudent action, IMO.

Totally agree with @hobo's assessment - $'s well spent.  'Nuf said here....

Cheers!

[Mountainman198]

5 hours ago, AlbertNTerri said:

Is ALCAN just a manufacturer or do they also do installation?

I believe Hobo has posed this question to ALCAN. I dont know the answer, I would PM him or give ALCAN a call. They may be able to recommend a local installer. Please report back your findings

[Patriot]

38 minutes ago, MAX Burner said:

Good discussions and points of view regarding this "OTT Spring Issue".   What a great group!!!

Speaking with Mike, I asked about ALCAN's track record, and can confirm @Patriot's comment that indicated they've never had a set of springs returned.  Don't think Dexter can make that claim.  But that's not the only reason why we're upgrading our suspension with ALCAN 5-packs.

OBSERVATION:  There may be a couple "OTT owner" camps here - there are those owners that purchased  their rigs new from Oliver and those, like us, that bought used.  Those buying new know exactly where their rigs have traveled, they know the level of maintenance performed over the years, and they know what's been broken, replaced, and upgraded.  

OTOH, those owning 2nd/3rd-hand Olivers have absolutely no clue how their treasured rigs were treated by previous owners, at least we sure don't.  That said, especially concerning running gear, we don't take any chances and err to the side of safety.  Short of taking our springs to an NDA lab for analysis (not a cheap date, either) - we've decided to go with the ALCAN 5-pack upgrade for peace of mind.

For those that choose not to have their springs NDA-inspected, having a spare in the bottom of the tool box might be a prudent action, IMO.

Totally agree with @hobo's assessment - $'s well spent.  'Nuf said here....

Cheers!

All good points Max. Just maybe if Alcan gets more orders and sales on board of the Oliver 5 spring pack they will consider increasing their warranty past 90 days. 👍🏻😊

Based on the very low number of leaf spring failures a spare is likely the way forward for us. Especially that we recently had Oliver install the new 5200# never lube axles and all new shocks, springs and EZ flex installed last Oct.

The good news is the 2 owners I know of older OLE2s with original Oliver installed 5 leaf packs have never had a failure. 
You gotta do you! 😊

Cheers and Onward! 

Patriot🇺🇸

Edited March 13 by Patriot

[John Dorrer]

9 hours ago, MAX Burner said:

Good discussions and points of view regarding this "OTT Spring Issue".   What a great group!!!

Speaking with Mike, I asked about ALCAN's track record, and can confirm @Patriot's comment that indicated they've never had a set of springs returned.  Don't think Dexter can make that claim.  But that's not the only reason why we're upgrading our suspension with ALCAN 5-packs.

OBSERVATION:  There may be a couple "OTT owner" camps here - there are those owners that purchased  their rigs new from Oliver and those, like us, that bought used.  Those buying new know exactly where their rigs have traveled, they know the level of maintenance performed over the years, and they know what's been broken, replaced, and upgraded.  

OTOH, those owning 2nd/3rd-hand Olivers have absolutely no clue how their treasured rigs were treated by previous owners, at least we sure don't.  That said, especially concerning running gear, we don't take any chances and err to the side of safety.  Short of taking our springs to an NDA lab for analysis (not a cheap date, either) - we've decided to go with the ALCAN 5-pack upgrade for peace of mind.

For those that choose not to have their springs NDA-inspected, having a spare in the bottom of the tool box might be a prudent action, IMO.

Totally agree with @hobo's assessment - $'s well spent.  'Nuf said here....

Cheers!

Thanks. Another good post. With a 2022, recent inspection by Oliver, and our truck place looking when doing the zerks, we are keeping an eye on things before we switch.  We run our tires at 55 lbs. Someone posted about running at 45 lbs. I might drop ours to 50 lbs. 

Edited March 13 by John Dorrer
spelling error

[MAX Burner]

1 hour ago, John Dorrer said:

We run our tires at 55 lbs. Someone posted about running at 45 lbs. I might drop ours to 50 lbs. 

Very good call, IMO.  

A SHORT RANT:  It's always a good thing to get your rig & TV weighed every once in a while - we do our's at the beginning of winter and spring because our load-outs are different for each season.  

D & I ran into another RV'er (AS type) a couple months ago at Picacho Peak SP in AZ.  We discussed GVWR - both trailer and TV.  He was new to RV'ing and literally had no clue that GVWR is the maximum loaded weight of the TV (or trailer), as determined by the manufacturer and is placarded on both.  He didn't know that the GVWR isn't just the weight of passengers and cargo but also the vehicle itself.  I explained that the gross vehicle weight rating is all about safety.

So we did a little drill - we located his placarded GVWR sticker on his TV and learned that the "useful cargo load" on his brand new Titan was 1,250lbs.  On the back of an envelope we added up the weights of everything the Titan was hauling.  You guessed it, with the 2 passengers, his 300# topper, camping gear, and the AS tongue weight of 950 (way over the 9-11% target wt. for a 7200# rig) - he was over his MAX cargo load by an unsafe margin.  He said, "Holy crap, I need a bigger truck!"  "Yup, or just pay attention to your equipment and respective weights", but that was my "inside voice."

We did the same drill for his AS and discovered he was over his GVWR by several hundred pounds.

The conversation went into liability issues should he perform an unsuccessful emergency stop while towing with an overloaded rig and TV - subsequently damaging property and/or causing injury.  He got the point and was thankful for the conversation.  He explained that no one advised him of this information during his recent purchases of the AS and Titan.  

The dude isn't probably the only one out there on the road without a clue about this basic, yet important topic.

Admittedly, preaching to the choir here - but not only should we take this topic seriously but we can also be watchful for those like this guy and get the word out.

Wouldn't be surprised if he's converted his Titan into a new 1-Ton diesel by now...  HA!

[Geronimo John]

4 hours ago, John Dorrer said:

We run our tires at 55 lbs. Someone posted about running at 45 lbs. I might drop ours to 50 lbs. 

John:

Michelin says inflate to their load table.  They also say use a minimum of 35 PSI for our weight.  Minimum because we are well under their chart range.  So in reality they are saying go with a much lower psi than any of us are using.

I started out at 80 from the factory.  My first stop was to a gas station where reduced the pressure to 60 psi.  Then several years later took it to 55, then to 50.  Now with repeated experience and knowledge, I will be at 42 PSI for HY and 30 or less (Depending on road condition/hazards) for off road use.  

My previous thoughts were highway efficiency (I.E. MPG) was all important.  With years of chasing cushions around the cabin, and now this thread topic:  I have realized that maybe I saved $20 in fuel each season, but at what cost to my Ollie.  Springs and shocks have a purpose.  Over inflation hinders their effectiveness and I am guilty of "Ollie Abuse" as a result.  

My recommendation is to save yourself the 6 year learning curve, and reduce the pounding for your OE2 by going with a somewhat consensus of 40 to 42 PSI for your OE2.  

+++++++++

All:  To cut this off at the pass:  Yea, I know that I'm over the Michelin recommendation of 35 psi.  Maybe I'm admitting to being somewhat hard headed.  But I can assure you that my learning curve continues.  Who knows, maybe next year I'll be saying time to move down to 38 PSI.  The Japanese call this Kaizen or continues improvement.  Yep, I am for sure a work in progress.  But my wife says that my progress is moving at a glacial pace.  

Edited March 13 by Geronimo John

[Geronimo John]

On 3/10/2024 at 7:54 PM, ScubaRx said:

The springs ARE 25-1/4" on center to the spring eyes. The spring eyes are 11/16" ID. They ARE 4-leaf springs, 1.75" wide steel and they should have distinct bow to them about 3 inches deep as measured on a long bow, string to grip. They should NOT appear as "very straight leaf spring assemblies". This would indicate to me that they have flattened and are failing.

For the DYIers here are key words for screening your rigs spring status.

Thanks Steve!

GJ

[Geronimo John]

I have sent in a ticket to OTT about the numbers of failures of the 4  leaf Dexter spring sets.  So far we have documented the following:

     ScubaRX                              Long Duration     ≥ 10     these occurred in the past

     SNY SD UP                          July 2023             2

     Mountain Man 198          Q1 2024               2

     Mountain Oliver               2023                     2

     Stevon                                 Feb 2024             1

For those listed, please PM me with any changes or additional info so I may update.

If you have had an OTT Dexter 4 leaf spring failure, please send me a PM with info.

I'll update this list as needed.

GJ

Edited March 14 by Geronimo John
Updated t show MM198 had two springs fail. GJ

[Geronimo John]

Let's coordinate efforts for sourcing replacement springs.  To facilitate, here is a compilation of specification elements presented.  This way we can have apple to apple comparisons

GJ

 

·        Four each replacement spring sets for tandem axle Oliver Trailer.  Each with new U-Bolts

·        Made in USA with USA sourced 5160 spring steel

·        Brass eye bushings

·        Wet Bolt Bushing ID = 9/16" 

·        2,000 lb rating

·        5 leaves

·        Second leaf extends underneath eye on each end (protecting common break area)

·        Steel, bolted spring keepers (one each end) vs a single, sheet metal band

·        Spring center bolt setup for Under Slung axle.  

·        Width = 1.75"

·        Drop = 3”

·        Length (eye-to-eye) = 25.25”

         Warranty Info:   

[MAX Burner]

@Geronimo John: Maybe add a data field for "price point"?

[John Dorrer]

3 hours ago, Geronimo John said:

I have sent in a ticket to OTT about the numbers of failures of the 4  leaf Dexter spring sets.  So far we have documented the following:

     ScubaRX                              Long Duration     ≥ 10     these occurred in the past

     SNY SD UP                          July 2023             2

     Mountain Man 198          Q1 2024               1

     Mountain Oliver               2023                     2

     Stevon                                 Feb 2024             1

For those listed, please PM me with any changes or additional info so I may update.

If you have had an OTT Dexter 4 leaf spring failure, please send me a PM with info.

I'll update this list as needed.

GJ

Thanks for doing this. 👍

[jd1923]

8 hours ago, Geronimo John said:

They also say use a minimum of 35 PSI for our weight. 

Yep, 35 PSI is the minimum, according to the Michelin spec e the tires on most of our trailers. Being a doubting engineer, I never go with min or max. So not 35 and certainly not 80!!! The next step up is 40, since these tables generally have 5 PSI increments. 40 PSI is a VERY GOOD number, per the spec, and would be the lowest I would run.

Me and GJ are going with our friend's 42 PSI recommendation. Go with 40 PSI, go with 45, 50 will not do damage, but greater than these numbers will, I promise! 

BTW, we in the know hope our friend is doing well. He has not checked into the OTT Forum for a while. God Bless @John E Davies

[Geronimo John]

1 hour ago, jd1923 said:

God Bless @John E Davies

Amen.

[Geronimo John]

5 hours ago, MAX Burner said:

@Geronimo John: Maybe add a data field for "price point"?

Art:

A.  Up and Out Info:  First we can help OTT by getting the User Names and number of spring failures.  The great part is that our impacted owners can provide reliable knowledge of their failures.   This info is the ammo that they will need right off the bat should they bring this to Dexter's attention.  If OTT desires more info from the impacted owners, it would be prudent for them to get it directly from the owners involved.  Our list will be very helpful to our friends at OTT. That is where I'm going with this.

B.  Down and In Info:  Asking that owners provide their paid cost for the specification I posted earlier today will allow straight forward comparisons of the spring alternatives that we as a group honed.  Just getting prices without knowing what was purchased would not.  This effort is one we as Owners can and should do directly. 

C.  Down the Road:  If OTT determines that they are going with another direction for their springs, then their volume would generate a much better price than we could ever get.  The hope is that they would do the right thing (As in my eyes they ALWAYS have.) and offer replacement springs to all of us at their cost plus shipping and some handling.  That is my the ideal solution in my eyes; the end of the issue as far as I'm concerned.
 

GJ

[MAX Burner]

7 hours ago, Geronimo John said:

The hope is that they would do the right thing (As in my eyes they ALWAYS have.) and offer replacement springs to all of us at their cost plus shipping and some handling. 

Hey, John:

Concur, 100%!  Well written - that would be the ultimate fix!

Thanks for collecting this info, brother!

Mahalo!

[John Dorrer]

I may have missed this, but I'm guessing that those that have recently purchased the new Alcan 5-leaf springs will be putting them on older trailers with 3,500 Axel's, versus the 2022 -2024 and 5,200 Axel's.

 

Did this come up in conversations with Alcan? 

What difference do you think there will be in the stiffness/ ride?

A 3,000 spring X 4 = 12,000 on a 3,500 axel

                           vs

A 3,000 spring X 4 = 12,000 on a 5,200 axel

 

 

 

 

[Mountainman198]

16 minutes ago, John Dorrer said:

I may have missed this, but I'm guessing that those that have recently purchased the new Alcan 5-leaf springs will be putting them on older trailers with 3,500 Axel's, versus the 2022 -2024 and 5,200 Axel's.

 

Did this come up in conversations with Alcan? 

What difference do you think there will be in the stiffness/ ride?

A 3,000 spring X 4 = 12,000 on a 3,500 axel

                           vs

A 3,000 spring X 4 = 12,000 on a 5,200 axel

 

 

 

 

Mike from ALCAN assured me that the springs they sold me were 2,000lb springs. So, 2,000x4= 8,000.  3,000 lb springs could be a issue. 
 

For full disclosure, my E2 is a 2021 with approx 25,000 miles towed. 99%+ of miles were on paved roads, 80% of those miles is West of Mississippi, remainder of miles is in the Summer. Never on either Coast.  Dry weight of my trailer is just over 5,250 lbs. 

All three tanks are empty whenever I travel. Trailer rides level using Andersen hitch. 

[Rivernerd]

15 minutes ago, John Dorrer said:

I'm guessing that those that have recently purchased the new Alcan 5-leaf springs will be putting them on older trailers with 3,500 Axel's, versus the 2022 -2024 and 5,200 Axel's.

Our Hull #1291 has two 5200 lb. axles.  I have ordered a set of 4, two for each axle. 

As the new 5-leaf springs are rated at 2000 lbs. each, the result will be 4000 lbs. of spring support per axle, for a total of 8000 lbs. of spring support for the trailer.

[DaveAndBecky_NorthernMI]

Well Oliver gang, as usual, this forum has provided not only a fundamental understanding of the spring issue but options for mitigation and replacement. Hull #1047 will be sauntering soon with anticipated travel of 5000 miles including the daunting road to Chaco Canyon. Planning and executing @Geronimo John

[rich.dev]

42 minutes ago, John Dorrer said:

 

I may have missed this, but I'm guessing that those that have recently purchased the new Alcan 5-leaf springs will be putting them on older trailers with 3,500 Axel's, versus the 2022 -2024 and 5,200 Axel's

 

John, I have 3500lbs axles on my 2023 Oliver LEII, or are you referring to the single axle Olivers?