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OK, a little more information provided by "Mike" at ALCAN relative to a four spring setup vs the five spring setup. I specifically asked Mike about simply swapping out our cheap, Chinese produced Dexter 4 spring set with a quality 4 spring set that they produce. He highly recommended going with the five spring set. In his opinion, the 3500 springs used by Dexter are inadequate for our trailers. That's good enough for me. I had asked about their 4 spring set as by yesterday (Friday) morning (the morning after Mountainman198) had posted the vendor source note, they had already sold out of the last 3 remaining stock of 5 spring sets to other Oliver owners. I was the first call Friday morning and he advised they were producing more next week (11-15 March) but wouldn't ship until NLT than Friday the 15th. Well we're departing on the 22nd of March for a six week trip and that schedule was almost a guarantee that at best, I might receive the shipped springs in time for the trip but wouldn't have time to install them. I of course would order them and have them with me just in case. So I locked in my order at 0700 yesterday morning. When I talked to Mike later yesterday he said based on my somewhat immediate need, he discussed with his production folks and they said they could have a set produced for me by next Wednesday (vice Friday) and they would be shipped that day. That's GREAT customer service. He also mentioned to me to me that in the time between having talked to him in the morning (0700), and when I called back at around 2PM, he had sold five more sets to Oliver trailer owners. He said "You Oliver trailer owners are a really tight knit group". He actually was so impressed, he went on line and investigated Oliver Travel Trailers. I have my RV mechanic on standby to replace my springs once they are received. He's having me bring in my trailer once I get the "shipped" notice so that it's already there in his shop the moment the springs arrive. To that end, my new springs should be installed before our departure on Friday, 22 March. I'll report back my findings once installed. Thanks again to Mountainman198 for all his efforts. Paul & Donna (2 HOBOS) hull 414 (last trailer produced in 2018)

My experience with my 23 LE1 over this winter in Colorado is that it's good unwinterized until single digit Temps. Having trouble with the truma varioheat maintaining stable temperatures when it's that cold and I strongly believe that has to do with the location of the temp sensor being too close to the exterior wall. Once it dropped below 10 degrees I'd get just the hot water side of the bathroom faucet freezing up and then just a few degrees lower the cold side would freeze as well but only the bathroom sink, I never had the kitchen sink freeze and while i never bothered to winterizethe outdoor shower it never ruptured and there's no leaks now so i dont think it ever froze. Now Once the tank got down to about 20% I did lose suction I do not know if that finally froze or if the TLI was just off and it was actually empty, thankfully that was only the day before I left for home so I just made do with my emergency case of bottled water j keep in the truck. Unfortunately I didn't think about investigating that further until I was already back in San antonio and hooked up to my house services. I did have I think 2 days where those bathroom lines froze while it was around 15 but that was during storms with pretty severe wind and they were thawed by the next day.

Oliver spotted at Galveston Island State Park. Nice opportunity to meet and chat with Ed Skigator. Coffee in the morning.

Good catch. A good example of why letting the first install with a few miles take place before opening up the flood gates. I would prefer to use a bench vice and two strong C-clamps. Belt and suspenders with one of them (The bench Vice) for sure not going anywhere.... just in case. GJ

While recently repairing a broken string in one of my shades I noticed "black" areas where the TV had rubbed against the "night" shade during travel. I started trying to clean it with "Simple Green" but that had no effect. So, I got a paper towel and Acetone. Very carefully and lightly I started wiping the black areas of the shade and the marks came off! There was no noticeable change in color or tone - I have the old off-white colored shades. I then wiped the rest of the shade with a damp sponge and light Simple Green. They now look like new. Bill

Etrailer.com and here is the information on the lights. Red MCL10RKB and Amber MCL10AKB. These new replacements do not have the silver ring around them anymore, but are a much superior product than the ones we replaced. Oliver is out of them right now and Mike Sharpe is the man that gave me these part number which etrailer had the red ones in stock and will ship the amber ones when they receive them.

I had one quit working last August at my annual state inspection. Auto parts stores have them. Just in case I ordered some more from Amazon. (PSEQT 3/4 round LED side marker clearance lights, front rear marker indicators tail light waterproof for trailer truck car bus van pickup RV ATV wrangler. 10pcs red & 10pcs amber) These come with the rubber grommets and chrome rings as well for under $20. Be sure to put a little bit of silicone on it before you install it. They just push through a rubber grommet from the outside. Nothing else holds them in place.

The newer rearview cameras that are installed by Oliver have a built in "hood/cover" that helps protect the camera from sun and rain and (perhaps) some glare. However, those of us with the older cameras no such "protection" is built-in. So, after seeing another one of these cameras where the owner (sorry, I do not remember just who that was) fabricated a hood/cover, I thought that I would try to do the same for my camera. I had some reasonable flexible plastic sheeting laying around the workshop that had originally been used during the installation of a "ceiling" under part of our decks on the house. I believe that the product was called "Underdeck". Anyway, using a bandsaw I cut out a rough shape and then used a heat gun to soften the plastic sheet such that I could hand mold it into the basic shape I wanted. Next, I refined the rough shape again using the band saw and then started sanding until I was basically satisfied. A bit more molding of the cover using the heat gun - note that I actually used the camera as a base for this "final" molding but was careful to not let the camera get too/very hot for the obvious reasons. Then it was a bit of hand sanding - this is not really that difficult given that the plastic is fairly soft. Perhaps the "final" detail of the project was the most difficult - the placement of the holes that aliened the outside bracket with the plastic hood with the holes in the camera body. Note that the bolts that attach the bracket to the camera body are not very long and with the added material of the plastic hood being involved there is not much room for error on this step. Finally, when I was satisfied with how it looked I spray painted the underside of the hood with ultra-flat black paint so that glare/reflection would be reduced. Questions? Bill p.s. Note: In the pics below it really doesn't show, but, the top of the hood does not rest directly on the top of the camera. This allows any heat from the camera and/or the sun to be dissipated such that neither should be subjected to too much heat. l This is the hood that I copied. I reduced and shaped the edges of mine such that there would not be any interference by the hood with the camera angles out to each side. The above is the camera mounted prior to making the hood. TopTop Back Front

Good catch. You are correct that the springs I have appear to be set up for Spring Over Axle rather than Spring Under Axle. Thanks for alerting us to this. Agree not a big deal, just another step which could be resolved on their end during assembly via a request at order time.

I noticed in the photos of the new springs that they have the center bolt installed in the opposite direction as the original springs have. I think that the round bolt head should be at the top side of the spring so that it can fit into the locating hole in the spring perch that’s welded to the axle. The hex nut will not fit in the location hole. It’s not a big deal, you can turn the bolt around but you’ll need two strong C clamps to hold the springs together before you try to loosen the bolt. I’ve done this before while restoring old cars and rebuilding the springs. Probably the manufacturer should be notified when an order is placed to install the bolt for the axle mounted on top of the springs not under the springs. I’m guessing that they are used to axles being mounted under the springs on jeeps etc. for more ground clearance.

One needs to ask, why would a spring set rated for 2,000 pounds fail with just a 1,350 pound load? In light of the heat treatment photo, this clearly is a defective product and we have almost a dozen instances where the Dexter provided axles have failed. This is a life safety issue that OTT would be in the best position to pursue with their supplier. Not to mention, as I suggested above, OTT should be warning their customers of this known issue. Keep in mind that not all OTT owners read every thread. We all would feel terrible if one of our beloved trailers went off a cliff and took out a family due to this defect. MODERATORS: I am asking that you: Make OTT aware of this issue and the frequency for which it appears to have occurred. Strongly suggest that they provide all owners with a Safety Bulletin. And to specially ask owners that have had failed springs to notify them for documentation and further actions with their supplier. Once they have the facts from owners with defective axles, to formally advise Dexter of this issue. GJ

Here are photos of the bottom corners of the sign where the water was coming in

Yes, I came to that same conclusion earlier as well. Combine that with being overloaded would make the failures far more commonplace. GJ

Never had any interior problems. Our trailer, with water and ready to camp, has always weighed north of 7000 pounds. And, for years we ran 80 psi in all our tires.

We spotted two Olivers at Twin Peaks CG around the first of Feb. Another in Guadalupe Mountain NP & a couple on the road. Total of 5 sighted during our recent 6 week tour of the SW. Galway Girl has popped up near us twice in our travels. Once in Boise when they pulled up alongside us in traffic (could do no more than wave & yell Hi) & once at Fort Warden in Port Townsend (we live a couple blocks from the campground). You guys get around!

Thanks, @hobo - we just placed our order for five 5-spring pack leaf springs with Mike at ALCAN Springs in Grand Junction (we'll carry a spare).

Some of it, yes. But, directing more warmed air between the hulls is intended to keep the plumbing from freezing. I choose to protect the plumbing, at the cost of burning more propane to keep the cabin warm.

Learned a long time ago - we don't sell guns, ammo, and TOOLS!

Just installed the replacement Furrion shore power receptacle. It does appear to be wired with 8/3 AWG cable, the same black rubber insulated cable that I noted when installing the EMS in our Oliver. Not that you would need any for this task, but this is the cable: 10 Feet 8/3 SOOW Cable Cord Wire - 8 Gauge 8 AWG 3 Conductor 600V Portable Power Extension Cord Cable with Ultra Flexible CPD Insulation Jacket: Amazon.com: Tools & Home Improvement Replacement is truly straight-forward. They even mark the back of the unit with black, white, green circles to make wiring simple. Make sure you place the gasket and rear cover on the cable prior to wiring. I cut the wires back about 3/4" so that the connections would hold to clean copper (just enough length to do so). Oh cr@p, what happened to the warning labels!?! I swear there was one above the outlet and another inside the cover, wt. WARNING - possibility of bodily harm if you somehow position a body part between this receptacle and a power source! Instead, please use the power source without involving the manufacturer's product. WARNING - Those who admit to reading this may be held liable! 🤣 The shiniest new part (and 2 SF) of our Oliver!

Those are the same reasons I plan to replace my springs, now that I know there have been a number of failures with the cheap Chinese 4-leaf springs. I had a leaf spring fail on my raft trailer many years ago in the "middle of nowhere," and it caused a logistical nightmare. Even after spring upgrade, the amount we load onto the trailer will not change. But I will have greater peace of mind when towing Hull #1291 far from home!

Rivernerd I only have a couple of suggestions about heavier springs besides the obvious considerations. One potential issue or set of issues have to do with frame integrity. The Oliver frame is extremely strong and in all likelihood would never be an issue but overloading is overloading. Rest assured that there is not another mainstream trailer in the USA that has a frame that even comes close to the strength of the Oliver frame design. The overland trailers with heavy galvanized structural steel frames are in another category altogether. The other issue with loading the trailer heavier than what it was originally certified to will definitely cause insurance issues and liability issues and legal issues in the event of an accident. I personally am leaning heavily towards replacing my springs with heavier ones just to have a larger factor of safety and less worry about spring failure. I carry two extra springs in my truck just in case but I don’t at all look forward to replacing them on the road. At least I have all of the parts even if for some reason I can’t do the work myself.

It seems that the only suspension component on 2022+ Elite IIs that limits the GVWR to 7K lbs. is the 4-leaf springs. The bearings on each 5200 lb. axle should be rated to 5200 lbs., like the axle is. It stands to reason that replacing all four of those 4-leaf springs with heavier duty "Made in America" 5-leaf springs could enable an 8000 lb. GVWR (2Kx4=8K) , at least in practical application. Do any of you engineer types out there disagree with this analysis? That said, I don't plan to increase the load on our Hull #1291 even if we upgrade to the 5-leaf springs, because we tow with a 2019 Tundra. The low Tundra payload capacity is our real limitation, not the trailer GVWR. But, I like to overbuild, so a beefier suspension than is absolutely necessary appeals to me.

Rumor is there is one more on the way…

Our daily OTT spotting record is 2. One was @Mike and Carol on I-10 westbound near AZ/NM border in JAN. We also had a unique OTT spotting experience last MAY in CO - while northbound on I-25 in the right lane near Trinidad, we had silver 2022-ish Tundra (same as ours) pass us in the left lane towing an Oliver of unknown pedigree... I immediately woke up D and said, "Hey baby, that's what we look like when we're passing another Oliver!"....

When we were in the early build stage of our Hull #050 back in late 2013, I asked Jim Oliver what he suggested for axles for our new Elite II. We were coming from a 2008 Elite that had a 5200 pound axle with five leaf spring packs under it. He quickly said that he would want the same ones we had on our first trailer. So that's what we went with. The plan at that time was to use 2 x 3500 pound axles with four leaf spring packs on the regular production Elite II's. With the exception of a few trailers built in 2015 with the 5200 pound setup for the reason stated previously by @rideandfly this has been the standard on all production units since the first 2014 models rolled off the line and continued that way through model year 2021. The 2022 to current Elite II models saw a change in their axles. The Elite's axle remained the same as they had always been but, In an effort to streamline production and simplify their inventory, the decision was made to use the same size axles on both the Elite and Elite II trailers. All trailers delivered since 2022 have been supplied with two 5200 pound axles with the Dexter Nev-R- Lube hubs on them. However, they stuck with the 3500 pound 4-Leaf spring packs that have always accompanied the 3500 pound axles rather than the 5-Leaf spring packs that are standard on the 5200 pound axles. Their reasoning is that the stiffer springs would cause a rougher ride and could lead to drawers coming open or cabinet doors opening up while under tow. This why the GVWR remains at 7000 pounds. In addition, Oliver has also changed from 16" wheels with LT tires to 15" wheels with ST tires. There has been some recent owner interest in obtaining the Dexter Nev-R- Lube hubs. This requires a complete axle swap as they are not compatible with the axles all the older trailers (pre-2022) are equipped with. If you are contemplating ditching the OEM 3500 pound axles for the new setups with the higher rated axles, be aware of this spring issue. I can personally attest to knowing of at least 10 spring failures on the 4-Leaf spring packs on both the older trailers and a few that have recently been delivered over the past year or so. All of these springs have broken in exactly the same place. Also, I have never heard of a single failure in any of the trailers that are equipped with the 5200 pound axle with the 5-Leaf spring pack. This includes all the Elites ever built and, to my knowledge, none of the Elites II’s that were originally built with the 5200 pound axles and the 5-Leaf spring packs. My predication is that the 4-Leaf spring packs will continue to fail no matter which axle they are installed with. My advice is if you are changing out your four leaf springs for any reason, consider a stiffer spring that the originals and to purchase and carry with you at least one extra spring pack. If you’re going to Alaska carry two sets. One owner was up around the Arctic Circle when he discovered his were broken. Not the ideal locale for a FUBAR.

My new springs arrived today. I confirmed measurements are correct and that they are the same size as what my E2 had when it shopped from the factory. Should be a direct bolt-in. Here are the specs on the new springs: -Made in USA with USA sourced 5160 spring steel -Bronze eye bushings vs. plastic -2,000lb rating/ea vs. 1,750 (will not change gvwr as axles/bearings remain determining factor) -5 leaves vs, 4 -second leaf extends underneath eye on each end (protecting common break area) -steel, bolted spring keepers (one each end) vs a single, sheet metal band -width = 1.75" -drop = 3” -length (eye-to-eye) = 25.25” The company I sourced them from is ALCAN. They are known for durable offroading springs and have been building custom springs for rock crawlers and overlanding vehicles for decades. Attached below is their contact info. Ask for Mike and tell him you are interested in the 1.75” wide trailer springs like he sold to Lance from Colorado. I will report back when I have them installed, but that may not be for a couple months until after the snow melts up here in the Rockies

We ended up going with a Winnabego Ekko. Couldn't be more of a different animal. Similarities in length, width, fiberglass exterior and it has wheels. That's about it. Gets the same MPG as my 2022 F150 did while towing. Absolutely not the same build quality or sense of interior open space as the Olivers. Also not molded fiberglass so will need to keep an eye on seams. On the flip side: Better driving on snow (AWD) as opposed to towing and have heard folks claim comfortably at -40. More storage for toys - I think comparable to Oliver and full sized truck bed with cap filled to the hilt. Cassette toilet as opposed to our composter which is different but working out fine. 50 gallon fresh tank, innovative convertible bathroom design, 640ah of lithium, ducted AC and a dedicated alternator for charging batteries at 160a while driving. Replaced my truck with a Honda Fit (the sensible guy's mid-life crises sports car) which we could and sometimes will flat tow behind the rig. We found a unit with 3k miles on it and it ended up costing twice what we paid for our E2 in '21. Hmmmm. Would be a questionable purchase were it not for the better fit with our camping style. Long trips but short stays at any one place. Oliver was certainly a more luxurious and open space with Ekko being more of an "adventure" platform. Every time we turn the key we are focused on some combination of skiing, kayaking, mountain biking, snowshoeing, etc... We mourn the passing along of our Oliver and feel it felt more like a home away from home. It's very likely that once we get over our outside toy addiction, we'll may circle back around. Wish we could have kept both. Thanks very much to you all. We are deeply appreciative that you would welcome a couple of Benedict Arnolds to stay in the group. We follow quite a few such forums and feel this is the best informed and supportive of all. Hope to see you all out there.

Fiberglass RV Rally Quartzite Arizona now has a Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/groups/domerockfiberglassrv Happy Trails

The wet bath was the thing that kept me walking away from Oliver. We were very close to purchasing an Airstream with a dry bath, but the better quality of the Oliver was worth not getting a dry bath. My thinking is a larger unit would put Oliver squarely in Airstream territory with a much better product.