2 in Bulldog coupler FAILED

[Geronimo John]

1 hour ago, rideadeuce said:

SO why not just OEM the 2-5/16th coupler instead of the marginal 2 in

No disrespect intended, but I do not support the above statement line.

The 2" BD is an excellent coupler for long long term use by our OE2's, unless we are exceeding the max gross weght of the trailer plackard (7,000 pounds).

1.   The use of the 2 5/16" BD's came about from concern with the ball wear caused by the design of the Anderson WDH.  Not out of concern for the need for additional safety margins.

2.  BD likely has millions of their 2" couplers in service and has an impecable reputation as being one of the strongest couplers on the market.  

3.  Yours likely failed form one, or some combination, of these causes:

     a.  Over Loading

     b.  Exposure to salt environment(s) without extensive cleaning after such exposures

     c.  Failure to control rust over long duration

    d.  Factory defect

You should contact BD and discuss. I suspect they will replace yours and want yours back for analysis.

Gj

 

 

Edited March 15 by Geronimo John

[mossemi]

4 minutes ago, Geronimo John said:

You should contact BD and discuss. I suspect they will replace yours and want yours back for analysis.

Gj

@rideadeuce

If Bulldog does in fact send a replacement coupler, be sure to request the 2-5/16" coupler.  Ask them to ship it to my house and I’ll buy you the beverage of your choice!😎

Mossey

[MAX Burner]

1 hour ago, rideadeuce said:

How can the max tongue wt max be 485 lbs when the TT dry is 4900 lbs. A basic rule of thumb is tongue wt max 10% of total wt. Through various online sources, I have always considered the V-8 Tundra's to be in the 600-700 lb range. I would appreciate any input on this. I mean if you can overload your max tongue wt with a 55lb generator in the front basket I would be shocked again. And correct me if I am wrong, the Tundra pulls the Ollie incredibly well without a sway bar or WDS. SO why not just OEM the 2-5/16th coupler instead of the marginal 2 in.

CLARIFICATION:  The "485-lbs" mentioned earlier was the MAX we've measured since we've had the tongue scale (purchased it 9 months ago).  My understanding of the "rule of thumb" for tongue weight is that it should be in the range of 9-11% of the actual weight of the TT - not the dry weight.  Could be wrong, though.

We weigh ours a couple times a year using CAT scales at a local truck stop, usually at the beginning of the winter season (about 6800-lbs) and the beginning of the spring season (about 6600-lbs)-ish.  We do this because our load outs are different for the two seasons.  So, under the rule of thumb", our target tongue weight is in the 660-680 range.  We've got a 50-lb bike rack and 75-lbs of bikes in the back which lowers our tongue weight somewhat.  We still only get a measured 485-lb tongue weight in this configuration (full water heater, full 30-lb LPG tanks, full fresh water tank, empty gray/black tanks, full fridge, clothes, etc.).  Have yet to figure out how to increase the TW to achieve the target - or if it's even necessary to do so.  Like your Tundra, ours tows the OTT without effort (we use an Anderson WDH, however).

Actually, the 485-lb TW is what we use to calculate our (rather light) cargo load for the Tundra which is 1400-lbs.  If we ever get the TW in the target range, that's 200-lbs of "stuff" that can no longer be hauled in the truck bed (assuming we've MAX'd out the cargo load).

Here's an example of our current TW right at 500-lbs without the bike rack/bikes (adds about 15lbs):

@Geronimo John - do you remember your measured TW from last AUG?

Hope this helps...

 

 

 

Edited March 15 by MAX Burner
added clarification and an image

[rideadeuce]

26 minutes ago, Geronimo John said:

2.  BD likely has millions of their 2" couplers in service and has an impecable reputation as being one of the strongest couplers on the market.  

 

The mechanic at A and A hitch outside of Tampa has been working there since 1985 and said he had never seen it happen like that and they are a top tier BD installer. I suspect you are right and that the missing gusset is the primary suspect for me. Still, I am glad to have upgraded to the beefier coupler at the moment. 

Edited March 15 by rideadeuce

[topgun2]

1 hour ago, rideadeuce said:

How can the max tongue wt max be 485 lbs when the TT dry is 4900 lbs. A basic rule of thumb is tongue wt max 10% of total wt. Through various online sources, I have always considered the V-8 Tundra's to be in the 600-700 lb range. I would appreciate any input on this. I mean if you can overload your max tongue wt with a 55lb generator in the front basket I would be shocked again. And correct me if I am wrong, the Tundra pulls the Ollie incredibly well without a sway bar or WDS. SO why not just OEM the 2-5/16th coupler instead of the marginal 2 in. Lots of variables here to think about for me personally and fellow owners as well. 

There is a ton of discussion on this and related topics here on the Forum.

Don't be fooled - in virtually any situation the Oliver Travel Trailers do NOT sway.  But, this is NOT the purpose of the Andersen weight distribution hitch (for the most part) with regards to Olivers.  ALL 1/2 ton trucks that I'm aware of REQUIRE a weight distribution hitch.  Yes, I know, your Tundra pulls your Ollie without any problem.  Well, so does my Ford F-150 and it has a rated towing capacity of north of 12,000 pounds.  But, Ford requires the weight distribution hitch for any hitch ball load over 500 pounds.  I'm no engineer but I'm certain that there are other factors involved like braking, frame construction, steering, etc..  And, if you drive without a weight distribution hitch and are in an accident then it is likely that some well paid lawyer will investigate to try to determine exactly what your tongue weight was when you had that accident regardless of it being a factor in the accident or not.  Certainly I would not want to risk my financial stability on a bet of being 15 pounds under or (over) the general 500 pound weight on the hitch ball number.

There are also additional benefits of the Andersen - reduced porpoising/bouncing for one, and, perhaps additional safety margins for another. Yes, the Andersen is not cheap nor is it always "easy" to hookup and it does take a couple of additional minutes to make sure that it is ready to go.

I doubt that the lack of an Andersen had much to do with what happened to your Bulldog one way or the other.  However, the Andersen is still worth very serious consideration.

Bill

[MAX Burner]

3 minutes ago, topgun2 said:

and, perhaps additional safety margins for another.

Perhaps another possible safety margin could be further securing the OTT to the TV with the tension chains and whale tail in the event the BD coupler snaps off completely - the Anderson tension chains would add another connection in addition to the safety chains/cables.  Just a thought...

[rideadeuce]

2 hours ago, topgun2 said:

ALL 1/2 ton trucks that I'm aware of REQUIRE a weight distribution hitch.

I have never heard of this. My understanding has alway been that you don't need to start thinking about a WDS until what you are pulling begins to outweigh the PV. I know that WDS does not increase the trucks towing capacity or reduce tongue weight and that if your truck and trailer are level and the weight is evenly distributed over the axles everything handles well. Sway bars and WDS are dealbreakers for me, not needing them is one of the reasons I love my Oliver so much and stay away from single axle and longer TTs

Thanks for the discussion.  It is necessary to remain vigilant about safely. Best, Mike

Edited March 15 by rideadeuce

[John Dorrer]

On 3/14/2024 at 9:43 AM, rideadeuce said:

"On the road again!". Ramblers, I do feel fortunate that nothing serious happened to my family or anyone else on the road. When saner minds prevailed and after a few hours of sleep. I got out the tools and took off the broken coupler and headed to a Bulldog dealer (A and A Hitch) in Bradenton, FL. Mechanic/welder since 1985, said he had never seen one do that. 

Upgraded to the 2- 5/16 in coupler. 12,500 lb pull capacity and 1875 lb tongue load.  A and A Hitch drilled the holes for me. 

Weight distribution device was never used (not needed?) pulls like and sits like an arrow, tongue weight always within spec (Yamaha 2200 gen since day 1 in basket), maybe 20K on frame, 2018 Tundra pulled without incident since day 1, mostly beach, MI and CO trips. 

Special thanks to @Mossemi and others for feedback and willingness to help. It really made me feel better and helped me make a better decision on how to rectify. 

Also, when looking at the broken coupler you can see where there was a seminal break that is rusted and then the subsequent clean fracture. The only thing holding it together was the top plate that was bent up. Check proximal to the neck for cracks. This happed without warning and I did not see the cracks from the outside. 

Side note: I like the gray paint. It may help someone see cracks vs. the standard black.

Best, 

Mike

Sorry this happened and glad your family are safe. What year trailer? We have the 2" on LE2, 2022. Will inspect ours . Keep us posted.

[rideadeuce]

1 minute ago, John Dorrer said:

Sorry this happened and glad your family are safe. What year trailer? We have the 2" on LE2, 2022. Will inspect ours . Keep us posted.

2018 Hull #308

[topgun2]

1 hour ago, rideadeuce said:

I have never heard of this.

Yep - it, indeed, is difficult to understand exactly why the manufacturers do not make this fact a bit more apparent.

With Ford, unless you lay on your back with your head under the receiver hitch, you will never seen the label that gives you this 500 pound limit.

I don't know where this information is located for the other brands - but - even though it may be stated in different ways, the bottom line is that the requirement is there.

Again, I do not believe that there is much correlation between your Bulldog failure and not having a weight distribution hitch.  However, @MAX Burner makes a good point about the increased safety margin that the Andersen just might provide.

I seriously appreciate your bringing the situation with your Bulldog to everyone's attention.  Hopefully your situation is a one off deal, but, by alerting us you just may have saved a bunch of trouble and even someone's life.

Bill

[ScubaRx]

9 hours ago, Steph and Dud B said:

@mountainoliver, is this the gusset you're referring to? And, should I be concerned about that weld on the left side of this photo?

I agree that the weld on the left looks a little sparse. Might have been the last one on a Friday and he was anxious to go buy a couple of six-packs!  It would, however, be easy to strengthen it up.

 

[Galway Girl]

in case folks wonder about the data on receiver hitch.  
 

Here are two labels from trucks we’ve pulled out EII with.  

 

The F150 required the Anderson Hitch,  the F350 has plenty of margin and automatic auto-sway control so no sway or load leveler hitch needed. 

F150 Hitch Label

F350 Hitch Label

 

 

[Geronimo John]

7 hours ago, MAX Burner said:

My understanding of the "rule of thumb" for tongue weight is that it should be in the range of 9-11% of the actual weight of the TT - not the dry weight.  Could be wrong, though.

Nope you're spot on.  One can dither on the % as it changes for every trailer.  Regardless the idea is to have more than you need to prevent bad words.  Having the great scale like you have is a wonderful way to check as over time it surely will change based upon so many factors.  But knowing what it is compared to past voyages is the "Gold Star" approach. 

6 hours ago, topgun2 said:

ALL 1/2 ton trucks that I'm aware of REQUIRE a weight distribution hitch. 

Yep..... virtually   99.998% that I am aware of do.  in fact, I have never seen any of those 2/1,000th unicorns, but likely it was a milspec WW2 Jeep product or one of those super cool vintage Dodge Power Wagons.  Neither of which would make a very practical TV for a lot of reasons that are irrelevant to your this topic.   🙂 However since OTT has well over 1,000 trailers on the road, there likely is a 1/2 ton that does not need one, and I would bet it's a beautifully restored WW2 machine.

4 hours ago, ScubaRx said:

It would, however, be easy to strengthen it up.

I FOR SURE WOULD NOT attempt to do so even with a master welder of the highest skills.  And my Grand Pa was one.

I for sure do recommend getting with BD and seeing what they say and will do to remedy the situation.  I'll bet they want yours and will send you a new one.

GJ

 

 

[Geronimo John]

7 hours ago, mossemi said:

If Bulldog does in fact send a replacement coupler, be sure to request the 2-5/16" coupler.

LOL.  I see you are a wise ole fellow!  Great idea.

Now if you can figure out a line to get the TV end of the Anderson replaced for free with the larger ball, we'll all stand up and cheer.  At least those who are running the 2" versions.  :-0

GJ

[jd1923]

5 hours ago, topgun2 said:

...With Ford, unless you lay on your back with your head under the receiver hitch, you will never seen the label that gives you this 500 pound limit... Bill

Older Ram 2500 Cummins here, where the User Manual states, a WD hitch is necessary for loads over 5000 LBS. 5K LBS, 500 hitch weight at 10% means the same thing. Keep in mind this is a 2500, not the Ford F150. Of course, newer RAMs have much greater tow capacity. Many 2500 TV members here go without the Anderson WD hitch. I use mine, not just re the user manual, but I can tell the difference, FOR SURE, when descending I-17 to Phoenix, a quick 4000 FT drop in elevation, the Anderson certainly helps, mountain turns feel solid.

I cannot stand the Anderson hitch hookup and screw the OTT setup video. What a total POS!!! Love to hit it with my 5 LB sledgehammer! It doesn't help but does make me feel better! Lately, I just loosen the two main nuts in the rear, mount it, drive down the road a piece getting TV and TT inline, then get out again, crawl under again, and tighten both sides equally. Showing about 1" of bolt thread on each side works for me.

I recently installed Timbren's "Rear Suspension Enhancement." They are like rear axle airbags w/o the air (will never have an aired suspension product again, never, another PITA). The Timbren have 2 heights, to use the spacer or not. One is too tight in my application, and one is too loose! Go figure. I need to call them and talk engineer to engineer. The spacer is 1" and I likely need to make a 1/2" spacer to make it fit. When hitched to OTT, the Timbren is 1/4" to touching: Timbren Rear Suspension Enhancement System Timbren Vehicle Suspension TDR1525H2 (etrailer.com)

Yep, some real cr@p happened to this Bulldog. I've had 4-5 of them and I would have to hit the one on my flatbed trailer 100 times with a 10 LB hammer, and it would likely be just fine. Hookup my trailer and down the road! Some kind of non-standard use or a weird chemical reaction must have happened here. I would love the read the official report. If the current owner was the original owner, better think about what was done to make this occur. This is NOT normal use, for sure, which the company legal team will argue...

[Geronimo John]

9 hours ago, rideadeuce said:

I suspect you are right and that the missing gusset is the primary suspect for me.

Quite likely.

My guess is corrosion ate it alive over time and got to the point of failure under normal driving loads.  If it were mine, I would want do know how the failure came about, and that is likely a BD effort.  

Hopefully we will be an update down the road.

GJ

Edited March 16 by Geronimo John
typppp0

[rideadeuce]

6 hours ago, jd1923 said:

I recently installed Timbren's "Rear Suspension Enhancement." They are like rear axle airbags w/o the air (will never have an aired suspension product again, never, another PITA). The Timbren have 2 heights, to use the spacer or not. One is too tight in my application, and one is too loose! Go figure. I need to call them and talk engineer to engineer. The spacer is 1" and I likely need to make a 1/2" spacer to make it fit. When hitched to OTT, the Timbren is 1/4" to touching: Timbren Rear Suspension Enhancement System Timbren Vehicle Suspension TDR1525H2 (etrailer.com)

 

I forgot to mention that I have the Timbren SES suspension enhancement installed my Tundra as well. Link: https://timbren.com/products/torttn-toyota-tacoma-tundra-2000-2023-rear-kit

This and the Anderson Rapid hitch make leveling the TT easy and work great to help eliminate: squat, roll and sway on the Tundra. I seldom have any porpoising, so I have not really looked at changing anything like the gen in the front basket or the two bikes I usually carry in the back. The Oliver pulls amazingly down the road and off-road (My real frustration with a WDS).

But saying all that, I have heard WDS enough times during these discussions to where I am seriously looking into getting one. 

I wanted to say thank you again for everyone's input and a healthy dialogue. 

Best, 

Mike

PS.

I did submit a report to the NHTSA and have sent an email to BD.

Edited March 16 by rideadeuce

[rideadeuce]

15 hours ago, mossemi said:

If Bulldog does in fact send a replacement coupler, be sure to request the 2-5/16" coupler.  Ask them to ship it to my house and I’ll buy you the beverage of your choice!😎

 

DEAL!

[Townesw]

@rideadeuce Hull 313 has the gusset 

[mossemi]

11 hours ago, jd1923 said:

I cannot stand the Anderson hitch hookup and screw the OTT setup video. What a total POS!!!

I love my Andersen WDH!  Both of the TV's I have pulled our Oliver with required it.  If I have to use it, I may as well embrace it.  

I can usually connect at least one of the chains and if I can't connect the other side, I just pull out of my campsite and turn away from the connected chain, letting the truck pull the whale tail around.  If I can't connect either chain, I will connect the ball and coupler and raise the back of the truck up until I can connect one or both chains.  If that makes you uncomfortable, while the TV and Oliver are connected and ready to hit the road, back up the TV onto whatever leveling equipment you have, which will raise the ball and coupling up, making the distance the chains and the TV shorter.  

Pick your battles!  Or just keep beating on it with a sledge and eventually, one of you will submit.😉

Mossey

 

Edited March 16 by mossemi

[MAX Burner]

We used to carry a big wooden mallet to get the whale tail to behave - now, we've transitioned to simply back-off both nuts to the end of the threads, which lengthens the chains to the MAX, easily connect and pin the whale tail, then tighten the nuts with a dedicated ratchet & Anderson socket enough to expose 7 - 8 threads on both sides.  

Less of a PITA and NO more mallet!

[rideadeuce]

Hey guys, I think I may have just figured out why this happened. If I am thinking about this correctly, looks like to me the wrong coupler was installed from the factory. 5k instead of the 7k coupler. Maybe one from the Elite I got put into the Elite II pile, they look identical, except for the notorious gusset.  Just noticed this when I was looking it over again. 

Edited March 16 by rideadeuce

[Rivernerd]

14 minutes ago, mossemi said:

I can usually connect at least one of the chains and if I can't connect the other side, I just pull out of my campsite and turn away from the connected chain, letting the truck pull the whale tail around.  

Another solution:  install turnbuckles into the extra chain length required to connect the Andersen WD hitch to the Oliver.  See the thread embedded below.  Just loosen the turnbuckle on the side that won't reach the whale tail until it is long enough to reach, then tighten the turnbuckle once the whale tail is straight.  All of this can be done while standing.  I carry Robogrips for this purpose:

 

[mountainoliver]

There you go! That’s the answer and we should all check the coupler installed on our trailer and make sure of the weight rating. Thanks, a sigh of relief from me.

[Rivernerd]

5 minutes ago, rideadeuce said:

5k instead of the 7k coupler.

It appears to me that Oliver owes you reimbursement for your replacement coupler.  I recommend you submit a service ticket.  Oliver has acted responsibly when advised of manufacturing errors in the past.