How heavy is to heavy

[varmintshooter]

Looking at a new tow vehicle. For those that tow with a 2500 or a 250 Super duty with a diesel what are the down side other than rough ride? I currently have a Casita 17 and pull it with a 2019 taco double cab, short bed, v6, 4x4. I use an Anderson wdh. I am getting 16-17 mpg when towing and the ride is fine, I'm 71 and not in a hurry.  I  want to buy a new Ollie LE11 and a new tow vehicle and not have to worry about loading and staying under weight .  I took a 2020 F250 Super duty crew cab for a test drive, it had the 6.7 PS diesel. Plenty of power and mpg was over 20 for my 24 mile test ride in city and on highway, but the ride was pretty harsh at times.  The truck, if I get it will not be a daily driver but used as a tow vehicle while traveling cross country in both mountain and flat land. So I ask what would be the down side of one of the bigger trucks. 

[John E Davies]

Welcome to the forum. 

The heavy duty pickups with rear leaf springs do tend to ride rough with a light load. Test drive a Ram 2500 with rear coils or air suspension. They ride very nicely. Also make sure the tire  pressures are set to the appropriate load, 80 psi and nothing in the bed is going to be jarring. If you want a really plush ride and can live with a gas motor, which I do recommend for a whole bunch of reasons, look at a newer Power Wagon with the 8 speed transmission. It has soft, long travel springs and a much lower payload. It is still plenty adequate for a LE2 without the Andersen hitch, and you can add aftermarket airbags to level the back if you do want to carry a whole bunch of boolets . You need to consider how you will drive the truck when the trailer is parked at a campground. If you plan to explore the back country and washboard ranch roads - and judging from your forum name, I suspect that you do 😬 - you need a comfortable unladen ride. When you are on the highway with the Ollie attached any truck will be fine. There are many threads discussing tow vehicles, do some reading here, then come back with any specific questions.

There was a recent Fast Lane Trucks video comparing a PW with the new Ford Super Duty Tremor offroad package. The Ford beat up the driver on washboard while the PW did not. The Ford pays a big penalty for having an extra 1500+ pounds of payload. It is all about your priorities. I personally will sacrifice payload for plush, because I value my fillings and kidneys. I can comfortably and safely drive at 40+ mph on rough gravel roads in my Land Cruiser or a PW. That is important when I am fifty or more miles away from my campsite. Driving that fast in a leaf spring truck just does not work...

I will mention that lots of LE2 owners are completely happy with their 1500 pickups, especially when traveling alone, if the drivetrain  is specced correctly. OTH a whole bunch have switched to a HD truck and they don’t seem to regret the change.

BTW if your forum name is your email address, switch it to something different or you might get a bunch of spam. You should not post personal contact info publicly. By Private Message that is OK.

John Davies

Spokane WA

Edited December 5, 2020 by John E Davies

[Frank C]

We tow our Elite II with a 2019 F-250 with the factory upgraded tow package, 6.2 gas engine.  12,500 lbs. towing capacity, 1,200 lbs. tongue weight capacity, 3,334 lbs. payload.   We haul a lot of stuff when camping.  The bed of the truck is full of stuff like camp chairs, Andersen jack buckets, portable solar panel setup, portable 3 stage water filtration system, toolboxes, 9’ x 12’ outdoor rug, folding tables, plus the weight of the Rock Tamer mudflap system, a rigid bed cover, over the bed cover bike rack, bikes, etc. so having the high payload capacity is a must for us.  The ride is pretty stiff when unloaded/not towing.  But I’m used to it now.  I do use the truck as my daily driver. 

Edited December 5, 2020 by FrankC

[Trainman]

All I'm going to say on this is anything over a 1/2 ton pickup for the Elite II is over kill. If you want a 2500 diesel then buy one, I've owned two Dodge 2500 diesels years ago and I didn't even own a trailer to pull, but it sounded great and I was too cool with my friends. Why not go to the Search Button and see what others say about this, It's talked about it on this forum all the time.

 

trainman

[bhncb]

2 minutes ago, Trainman said:

anything over a 1/2 ton pickup for the Elite II is over kill

Ok but, it's all about available payload after subtracting the hitch load. How much "stuff" do you want to take along? Tow ratings make good marketing fodder but don't mean much beyond adequate .

[Frank C]

As you can see it’s a point of debate.  But you have to look at more than just towing capacity.   You have to also look at the payload/cargo sticker on the specific truck you are considering.   It’ll be on the driver’s door jamb.  And it’ll be different ratings even on two of the same truck sitting side by side on the dealer’s lot depending on how each truck is optioned.  An Elite II with 500 to 600 lbs of tongue weight plus a driver and just 1 passenger will eat up 1,000 lbs of your payload capacity, and that’s BEFORE you start adding any other accessories like a cap or bed cover on the truck, a bed liner, and any luggage, a loaded cooler, etc.  A lot of the high option (Limited, Platinum, King Ranch, etc) half ton trucks have less than 1,500 lbs. payload ratings.  

Edited December 5, 2020 by FrankC

[NCeagle]

We are towing our new Elite II with a 2006 Silverado 2500 Diesel with 230K miles on it until it dies.  From what I've read on the forum, any 1/2 ton or 3/4 ton will pull an Ollie II incredibly well and will ride a LOT smoother with one attached.  Other than the rougher ride while empty, parking is the only thing that comes to mind when I think of inconveniences of a bigger 2500 truck if you want to call it that.  When my time comes to buy a new TV, I know from experience that I will have a camper top and carry an enormous amount of stuff in the back of my truck when using my Oliver (or any travel trailer).  I will also be in the mountains a lot, so for me it will likely still be a 3/4 ton - payload and power are what separate the 3/4 ton pickups from the 1/2 ton ones - at least today.

[Mike and Carol]

We traded our 1500 Rebel last month for a 2500 diesel.  I was tired of always being at or above payload capacity and wanted a more relaxed towing experience in the mountains.  A gas V8 at 5,000 RPM in the Colorado mountains isn’t fun.  Mike

[Landrover]

On the defense of the GM heavy duty diesel. 4x4 crew cab, I thought, and it may be true that it would be considered overkill until you own one. With all the added benefits that you don’t get with a 1/2 ton very comfortable ride quality, pay load and towing capacity excellent fuel mileage and don’t forget engine braking and high torque at low rpms no screaming truck up steep mountain climbs. I’m sure that it is some of the reason you are seeing Diesel engines now being put in the 1/2 ton trucks. As always this makes good thread discussion. But your own personal preference always wins. Ive had them both Ford F-150 and the 2500 HD. Chevy I preferred my Hd.

[BlueHighways]

+1 on the F250 with 6.2 gas motor. We “test drove” an EII with an F150.  For that setup, I was going to need an Andersen hitch to level.  Personal circumstances changed and we bought the current F250.  
 

The Oliver will pull great behind either truck but, the F250 allows for more junk for the adventure.  With a Decked Drawer system and a bed rack, we can carry tools, kayaks and bikes on the truck. 
D

[Jps190]

Just picked this up yesterday for a soon to be ordered Oliver EII.  Great deals on GMC and Chevy right now with the employee discount (and more if you know how to negotiate).  As everyone has said, the key to the HD trucks is the payload.

Edited December 6, 2020 by Jps190

[SeaDawg]

12 minutes ago, Jps190 said:

Just picked this up yesterday for a soon to be ordered Oliver EII.  Great deals on GMC and Chevy right now with the employee discount (and more if you know how to negotiate).  As everyone has said, the key to the HD trucks is the payload.

Great looking truck!

 

[BackofBeyond]

16 hours ago, Trainman said:

All I'm going to say on this is anything over a 1/2 ton pickup for the Elite II is over kill. If you want a 2500 diesel then buy one, I've owned two Dodge 2500 diesels years ago and I didn't even own a trailer to pull, but it sounded great and I was too cool with my friends. Why not go to the Search Button and see what others say about this, It's talked about it on this forum all the time.

 

trainman

Well we all have opinions. I towed with a 1/2 ton, and now with my 2500 (19,000 miles towing, 43K overall), overkill is not what I'd call it,  more appropriate - it performs better in every situation except tight parking lots. As has been mentioned - the most capable statistic of the larger TV is payload. I also believe the added power of the diesel is well worth the upgrade. As they say, I've been with and with out - I'll take with every time. 

I drove all the competition in 2018 - the Ford was much rougher ride unloaded. The GMC has decent manners unloaded and is really good loaded. I once had  a 2007 HD GMC - now that was a stiff suspension!! Worlds apart from the trucks of today.

If I were in the market today - I would seriously look at the Ram and the GMC - I'd want to drive the gas versions of each of the HD's - even try to talk them into letting me haul the Ollie around a bit. I'd even try the 1/2 ton ones if the payload was appropriate - I believe I saw one in the 23oo lbs. area,  Not sure however.  But now that I have the requisite chips, scrapes, and depreciation on the current one - I'll probably just drive it for a good while -.like forever 😉  

 

Edited December 6, 2020 by BackofBeyond
correction

[Mike and Carol]

26 minutes ago, BackofBeyond said:

As has been mentioned - the most capable statistic of the larger TV is payload. I also believe the added power of the diesel is well worth the upgrade. As they say, I've been with and with out - I'll take with every time. 

I totally agree with Russell.  As I posted earlier, for me it is about payload and pulling.  I’ve towed my trailer now with a Tacoma, two Ram 1500’s and now a 2500.  Some wise owners told me in the beginning the Tacoma wouldn’t be enough.  It pulled on flat roads fine but lacked payload and had a small fuel tank.  The 1500’s were an improvement, and probably a good compromise as a TV, but payload remained an issue as did performance in mountains.  I will say that both 1500s were good daily drivers, comfortable and lots of features.  With this new truck I can load whatever we need for camping and not worry about my weight limit, I’m just not going to get there.  Mike

 

Edited December 6, 2020 by Mike and Carol

[Fritz]

I've been contemplating a tow vehicle now for several months (a long waiting time for the LE2 allows this).  Preferred TV: 1/2 ton diesel, but the payload isn't there.  John Davies said "You owe it to yourself to go try the Ram 2500."  I did, and tried the GMC HD also.  Big vehicles, but solid. It appears that either of these trucks would get better towing mileage than any of the 1/2 ton, non-diesel pickups (search for "LE2 Towing Mileage").   But in the back of my mind, I saw folks like Mike and Carol trading a 1500 for another 1500, and concluded they must have been plenty happy with the 1/2 ton truck.  But now they trade to a 2500 -- more payload and capability mountain passes.  Well, I guess that points us even more toward the 2500.

BoB, from your picture above it looks like you're using the Anderson WDH with your GMC 2500... am I seeing this correctly?  If so, do you do this for the weight distribution, or ride quality, or...?

 

[Mattnan]

Just an opinion.  We tow with a 2008 Tundra with the 5.7 litre and tow package.  It is the entry level trim package with very few options.  We have owned the truck since new and have been very happy with the reliability and the truck overall for our needs.  When we decided on purchasing the Elite II last year, it was clear the truck was capable and had plenty of power.  We watch the payload numbers and are probably right around the payload maximum.  We have and use the Andersen hitch.  The truck only has 90k miles and is comfortable to me.  It performed well on our first 45 day journey.  We didn't really get into any significant elevation.  We hope to try some elevation this year.   The truck runs fine and owes us nothing.  We realize it is out dated. It is practical.

I did consider getting a new truck to tow the Ollie.  I test drove GMC, Ford, and Ram, HD diesel trucks.  If I was starting out and didn't have a tow vehicle and was getting a truck to pull the Ollie I would get an HD truck.  I would probably get a 1 ton.  It is definitely over kill but the incremental price difference was only about $1500 over a 3/4 ton.  The diesel gets much better gas mileage than my Tundra.  No need for the Andersen hitch.  Never worry about payload and the engine brake would be really nice.  I think the brand of HD truck is a personal choice and the virtues of what brand is best is debatable.  I thought one of the trucks, for me, was as comfortable as my Tundra.  Good luck.

I kept my Tundra and the $ in my pocket for now.

Good luck in your decision!

 

[Mike and Carol]

5 hours ago, Fritz said:

But in the back of my mind, I saw folks like Mike and Carol trading a 1500 for another 1500, and concluded they must have been plenty happy with the 1/2 ton truck.  But now they trade to a 2500 -- more payload and capability mountain passes.  Well, I guess that points us even more toward the 2500.

My 2016 Ram 1500 had a couple hundred pounds more payload than the 2020 Rebel did.  They both had the same engine (5.7 Hemi), rear end (3.92) and 8 speed transmission but the 2016 towed better and had better gas mileage.  I really wanted the Rebel and I’m glad I got it, but the towing experience was not as good.  When this 2500 showed up at a local dealer with all the towing options, large payload capacity and Cummins it seemed  like the time to move up.  It looks very similar in color and styling as my Rebel and I got it at the end of the month so they were willing to deal.  Mike

[MontanaOliver]

I have many towing and hauling needs, own several different style of trailers and haul a slide in truck camper as well. Can only afford the one work horse, thus it gets used for all purposes. If I had only the Ollie to tow AND was looking for a new TV it would be a F250/350 or equivalent truck with a topper on the bed. I would not want to mess with the Anderson products, for several obvious and not so obvious reasons. The less mechanical contraptions, bandaids, moving pieces and parts for me to mess with makes my day. Sure, trucks ride a bit rough when empty...by design. The F150/1500 class rigs are a good compromise but again, most need EQ equipment to properly/safely tow heavy. Match the TV to the intended maximum tow requirements and call it a day. I’m not a SUV guy, thus no experience or comments.

 

[MontanaOliver]

I’ll add this...think of intended drivers as well. My better half likes to drive and she feels very comfortable driving our various towing setups. I’ve insisted she knows and understands the connect and disconnect routine. We seek out and boondock camp, almost exclusively; sometimes never seeing another soul for days and I personally believe she needs to know how to get us home if a medical emergency arises. Luckily, she is a willing participant and obviously YMMV. I’ve turned her loose on White Bird Summit, I-70 west of Denver and Davis Damn...all downhill grades known for hot brakes and white knuckles. A Diesel engine, with it’s proper exhaust brake and tranny mix, makes for an uneventful descent.

Edited December 30, 2020 by MontanaOliver

[John E Davies]

MontanaOliver, I drive the same rough, narrow high altitude forest roads as you do, and those endless washboarded ranch roads, but I cannot imagine doing so in a massive dually with that long wheelbase....  You must be a whole lot tougher than me. The reason I tow with a Land Cruiser is so I can park the Ollie and I can drive those roads without getting physically beat up, or high sided, or broken down, or forced to back several miles down a dead-end road.

Love the Magruder Road scenery! I drove about a mile up that exact rough side road in your second pic, with my old LX450 and a 10 ft trailer, and turned around after a mile. It got too ledgy. I had to unhitch it and back and fill, and dodge a long stream of upset ATVers coming down from Burnt Knob lookout. Great memories of a once in a lifetime route.

Idaho Magruder Corridor

John Davies

Spokane WA

 

Edited December 30, 2020 by John E Davies

[MontanaOliver]

5 hours ago, John E Davies said:

MontanaOliver, I drive the same rough, narrow high altitude forest roads as you do, and those endless washboarded ranch roads, but I cannot imagine doing so in a massive dually with that long wheelbase....  You must be a whole lot tougher than me. The reason I tow with a Land Cruiser is so I can park the Ollie and I can drive those roads without getting physically beat up, or high sided, or broken down, or forced to back several miles down a dead-end road.

Love the Magruder Road scenery! I drove about a mile up that exact rough side road in your second pic, with my old LX450 and a 10 ft trailer, and turned around after a mile. It got too ledgy. I had to unhitch it and back and fill, and dodge a long stream of upset ATVers coming down from Burnt Knob lookout. Great memories of a once in a lifetime route.

Idaho Magruder Corridor

John Davies

Spokane WA

 

John,

Agreed, a Magruder road trip is not for the inexperienced, faint of heart or those afraid of dirt/dust and scratches/dings to the body work. I've travel this route (it is my backyard area sort of) so many times I can't keep track. Started back in the 60's with Grandpa/Grandma dragging us brats along to pick huckleberries or hunt bear...hated some of those forced outings. Of course, now days, I'm guilty of the same punishment on the youngsters. I've hauled horses in stock trucks and trailers over the Magruder for years. It's just a matter of what you know and are used to, I guess. These type of roads are not a big deal to me, but yes you had better know how to use your mirrors and be very comfortable backing up your rig, to include around switchbacks. Big cities and traffic...that's my Rubicon. Every time I hit Denver traffic headed south on I-25, I wonder why I'm here and if I'll make it across the US interstate parking lot mess to visit the kids.

The posted photos are from this last summer. A buddy had never been across Magruder and wanted a guide. So off we go...spent two nights at the top of the world and as I'm totally done with the tent camping, the truck camper was my rig of choice: from the USFS brochure...#10 - Observation Point Observation Point Campground has nice camping spots and toilets. The elevation is 7620 feet and visitors can view the southern portion of the Bitterroot Mountain Range, especially El Capitan. The point also offers breathtaking vistas of subalpine/ alpine wilderness.

As to long wheel bases and bigger sized TVs. It's all relative I guess. Your four door Yota would be considered big and cumbersome on many roads, but it appears you at least know how to get yourself out of a mess. Our two door Jeep (and really, do Jeeps need four doors...errr) is the right sized 4x4 for our needs. But compared to a Suzuki Samurai we are huge.

Sorry for the slight thread hijack...back to tow vehicles and the endless discussion of what is the best rig. In my experience, you either use what you already own or can afford or move on to obtaining the correct vehicle matched to the task at hand. Me, I use what I already own which was purchased to tackle my taskings. Would I haul Ollie over the above discussed roads...yup, if it was all I owned. Spent, folded and/or mutilated be damned. Mark

 

 

Edited December 30, 2020 by MontanaOliver
typos and such...I'm sure I still missed some, eh.