Relative newb here

[DanielBoondock]

Hi Folks,

    I’ve been chatting with the wonderfully helpful members here on the towing forum already, as there’s no reason to introduce myself if I can’t sort out whether its possible to pull one. Anyhow with the help thats cleared up so now I’m on to stage two to see if this is the right thing for us (wife and college age son will come with us occasionally) 

   I’m retiring from my regular job in a few years (taking a somewhat early retirement) and am moving on to working for myself. Otherwise I don’t want to just have a working life at this point in my life and want to reconnect with many things in my life, including travel and old hobbies. Looking to do these kinds of things with a trailer

• Various hobbies such as astronomy (built my own telescopes), long time photographer, hiker and reconnecting with a one time career attempt at paleontology and geology. 
• Have our own place while visiting relatives 
• Moved around a lot and would like to revisit those places and many new ones in the US (I’m burned out of international travel I did for work)

As I mentioned on the other thread I need to do computer and piano work while on the road. 

Anyhow, I’ve done winter backpacking and so am looking for a 4 season trailer, and being an engineer I appreciate the care and design of the Oliver. For tow vehicles I’ll be getting a 3/4 or 1 ton Silverado probably. The final issues I’m working through are the following -

• Cost - Oliver has jacked the prices by some $20k during the pandemic, which has been done elsewhere, but it sticks in my craw and makes it difficult to purchase at such nose bleed prices, including that I need a truck too. I’m all for companies making profit but am not comfortable with this. Annoying as I’m not suffering from pandemic consumerism but just want to retire. 
• Interior dimensions. It’s very cozy, but (not having been in one) appears not to be as open as others. Probably a design trade off given the robustness of the trailer, but I wonder if it will bother me eventually, or isn’t a problem
• Ideally I’d be able to take one out for a weekend somehow, but probably not possible. 
• I worked on farms and such, and drove all over towing stuff with my dad when young so am comfortable with that, but am not sure if this is worth the cost and trouble (I also need to find a place to store it!) For example I used to sail, and paradoxically a beautiful used sailboard goes for a fraction of the trailer, and no tow vehicle necessary, why not make it simple and cheap and buy a yacht?

Anyhow those are my main concerns, any thoughts welcome

[Mike and Carol]

I’d recommend a factory visit or trying to find an Oliver nearby to get a feel for the size.  It is small on the inside, compared to traditional trailers.  It hasn’t been an issue for us except during extended bad weather days where we really had to spend a lot of time in our trailer.  Mike

[CnC]

As a previous Airstream owner, I found more value in the Oliver.   The $20k increase includes improvements and upgrades.  But if price is a problem for you, there are used units available from time to time - just be aware that unlike other TTs they don't lose value very fast.

Here's hoping all your retirement plans go as planned. 

Charlie  

[Katjo]

43 minutes ago, DanielBoondock said:

Hi Folks,

    I’ve been chatting with the wonderfully helpful members here on the towing forum already, as there’s no reason to introduce myself if I can’t sort out whether its possible to pull one. Anyhow with the help thats cleared up so now I’m on to stage two to see if this is the right thing for us (wife and college age son will come with us occasionally) 

   I’m retiring from my regular job in a few years (taking a somewhat early retirement) and am moving on to working for myself. Otherwise I don’t want to just have a working life at this point in my life and want to reconnect with many things in my life, including travel and old hobbies. Looking to do these kinds of things with a trailer

• Various hobbies such as astronomy (built my own telescopes), long time photographer, hiker and reconnecting with a one time career attempt at paleontology and geology. 
• Have our own place while visiting relatives 
• Moved around a lot and would like to revisit those places and many new ones in the US (I’m burned out of international travel I did for work)

As I mentioned on the other thread I need to do computer and piano work while on the road. 

Anyhow, I’ve done winter backpacking and so am looking for a 4 season trailer, and being an engineer I appreciate the care and design of the Oliver. For tow vehicles I’ll be getting a 3/4 or 1 ton Silverado probably. The final issues I’m working through are the following -

• Cost - Oliver has jacked the prices by some $20k during the pandemic, which has been done elsewhere, but it sticks in my craw and makes it difficult to purchase at such nose bleed prices, including that I need a truck too. I’m all for companies making profit but am not comfortable with this. Annoying as I’m not suffering from pandemic consumerism but just want to retire. 
• Interior dimensions. It’s very cozy, but (not having been in one) appears not to be as open as others. Probably a design trade off given the robustness of the trailer, but I wonder if it will bother me eventually, or isn’t a problem
• Ideally I’d be able to take one out for a weekend somehow, but probably not possible. 
• I worked on farms and such, and drove all over towing stuff with my dad when young so am comfortable with that, but am not sure if this is worth the cost and trouble (I also need to find a place to store it!) For example I used to sail, and paradoxically a beautiful used sailboard goes for a fraction of the trailer, and no tow vehicle necessary, why not make it simple and cheap and buy a yacht?

Anyhow those are my main concerns, any thoughts welcome

Hi Daniel, I’m a firm believer in you get what you pay for. Yes, the price has gone up but it’s gone up on everything, everywhere. A lot of the cost increase is for materials. You may consider buying used, that will knock down the price as opposed to buying new. 
Interior: We went from an Airstream to the Oliver and while I do miss the wide expansive windows in the AS we find the Oliver quite comfortable for just my husband and I. 
Give Oliver a call and they can tell you where the closest Oliver is near you that you can go take a look at. If possible schedule a tour of the factory. 
Storing-We are lucky in that we can store our Ollie at home but it is a justifiable concern if you need to find a facility to store it. I know many store at inside/outside storage facilities but it is costly. 
Whatever you decide, take your time and you will find the perfect fit for you. 

[John E Davies]

Have you ever towed a 6000 pound trailer in winter, over slick roads? There are a few here who winter camp, I am not one of those. It’s much too risky, too destructive for the trailer, and too hard to wash the corrosive chemicals off it afterwards in sub freezing temperatures.. Have you thought this part out thoroughly?

Where do you live? For winter travel I suggest that you not buy a brand new trailer ….. 😳

John Davies

Spokane WA

[Frank C]

Welcome to the forum, and also welcome to potential Oliver ownership.  If you’ve never camped with an RV or trailer before, you may want consider renting an RV or trailer from a place like CruiseAmerica to see if you’ll really enjoy the trailer life.  CruiseAmerica rents both travel trailers and RV motorhomes.   Very doubtful that you’ll find anyone willing to rent you their Oliver.  The Oliver is a big investment (along with a tow vehicle) and there have been a few owners who sold their Oliver soon after purchase when they discovered all that is involved in trailer life (hitching and un-hitching, campground setup, emptying holding tanks, sanitizing the water system, troubleshooting issues at campgrounds, general annual maintenance, repairs, problems on the road, storage of the trailer when not using it, etc.).   Some of their (mis)adventures have been very interesting to read.  You mentioned you’ve done backpacking so you at least have some idea of what’s involved in camping.   We spent 3 years car camping before moving up to an Oliver. Now in our 4th year camping with the Oliver Elite II and we love it, and it’s a perfect size for just me and my wife, but it is a lot of work and expense compared to just checking into a hotel. But we love the freedom of travel and having all of our own stuff with us no matter where we travel.  

[DanielBoondock]

Hi John,

   Winter camping can mean a lot of things, given this geographically diverse country we live in, and yes there are many examples where it’s got the challenges you mention. Thanks for your thoughts.

19 minutes ago, Katjo said:

I’m a firm believer in you get what you pay for. Yes, the price has gone up but it’s gone up on everything, everywhere. A lot of the cost increase is for materials. You may consider buying used, that will knock down the price as opposed to buying new. 
Interior: We went from an Airstream to the Oliver and while I do miss the wide expansive windows in the AS we find the Oliver quite comfortable for just my husband and I. 

We could talk about monetary policy, the yield curve and the various forms of inflation and deflation but maybe not here 🙂 A small point though that the raw material prices, and demand for RVs has softened, exactly as you’d expect.

Thanks very much for the comparison to the Airstream, that has been in the back of my mind.

 

2 minutes ago, Frank C said:

If you’ve never camped with an RV or trailer before, 

I don’t want to write a novel but my childhood was spent fishing with my Dad in RVs, tents and cars, in all seasons in remote areas. It’s mainly about what my wife thinks. I didn’t know Cruise America does trailers too, thanks for that tip.

[routlaw]

Lot of good replies on this subject, but I will throw in one more not often discussed. Winter camping and cold weather is relative, we have many owners here who live in the deep south or there about and having grown up down there myself I can tell you with no uncertainty winter camping down there is a lot a different than winter camping in places like Montana where I now live. I don't consider the Oliver a 4 season camper in Montana winters unless you hit on a very mild spell and even then you'll run the furnace nearly non stop. Its highly unlikely you'll have running water under those conditions either. Otherwise its a great camper but as others have stated there is a lot of maintenance to do with any of these RV's not just an Oliver. Good luck with your decision.

[Frank C]

13 minutes ago, DanielBoondock said:

I don’t want to write a novel but my childhood was spent fishing with my Dad in RVs, tents and cars, in all seasons in remote areas. It’s mainly about what my wife thinks. I didn’t know Cruise America does trailers too, thanks for that tip.

Sounds like you have a good idea of what RV life is like.  And here’s the link to the Cruise America travel trailer rental options.

https://www.cruiseamerica.com/rv-rentals/our-vehicles/adventure-travel-trailer-rental

[SeaDawg]

You could also try rv.net for a rental trailer, from an owner. 

We rented a Tab for my sister and her husband,  years ago, when they thought they wanted a tab. 5 days told them they loved camping, but didn't love the tab. It was a really good, honest experience.  They got to tow, check stuff out, etc.  Turned out the trailer had no propane in the tank,  so that was an issue. No fridge, etc.

Battery was weak, so we loaned them a spare, and a genset. Their first trailer camping experience was boondocking,  no power, so a true test.

 

[SeaDawg]

As far as the price increases, I don't think Oliver is jacking stuff up, or gouging. Fiberglass is a petroleum product. Raw materials have doubled. I posted a chart somewhere last year. But, you can look for yourself.

Everything else has gone up as well. Salaries, insurance, you name it.

The Oliver family is an honorable family,  imo. During the last downturn,  they kept virtually everyone in the plant  employed, in other roles,  even though they had to close the trailer line. They never let us "orphan" owners down, if we needed help, parts, repairs. Someone always helped. 

I'm a small town, country girl by upbringing,  and that just speaks volumes to me. You don't find that a lot. 

By all means, shop around. Everything else has gone up, too. 

My elite 1, in 2008, was probably slightly more than  half the price of today's elite 1. I get that. But, what's included in a base trailer today is phenomenal.  

I really wish they'd roll it back a bit. Include fewer items that should, imo, be options.  Many people don't need, or even want, what's in the base package. And, some non-techie folks shouldn't want it.

Just my opinion. 

Happy to still camp in my 15th season, 2008 Elite 1. If our daughter wants it, it will be hers, when we're gone. Hopefully,  decades from now. We'll see what life brings. For now, all is good.

 

[Mike and Carol]

1 hour ago, SeaDawg said:

I really wish they'd roll it back a bit. Include fewer items that should, imo, be options.  Many people don't need, or even want, what's in the base package. And, some non-techie folks shouldn't want it.

I would also like to see a “basic” trailer that would allow a more affordable Oliver.  As long as they are selling everything they can make with all the bells and whistles I don’t see that happening.  Mike

[Mike and Carol]

1 hour ago, SeaDawg said:

As far as the price increases, I don't think Oliver is jacking stuff up, or gouging. Fiberglass is a petroleum product. Raw materials have doubled. I posted a chart somewhere last year. But, you can look for yourself.

Everything else has gone up as well. Salaries, insurance, you name it.

The Oliver family is an honorable family,  imo. During the last downturn,  they kept virtually everyone in the plant  employed, in other roles,  even though they had to close the trailer line. They never let us "orphan" owners down, if we needed help, parts, repairs. Someone always helped. 

I'm a small town, country girl by upbringing,  and that just speaks volumes to me. You don't find that a lot. 

By all means, shop around. Everything else has gone up, too. 

Agree 100%.  The Olivers are not trying to take advantage of anybody.  They are making a quality product and selling at a fair price.  I know small business owners here in south Texas that are having a very challenging time hiring reliable employees and are often operating with fewer employees than they should have.  I’m sure Hohenwald is no different.  Mike

[DanielBoondock]

Salaries haven’t kept up with inflation since 2000, except in public sector jobs where they gave 3% like clockwork. Now they generally make as much as private, plus the pension plan, it’s a joke. I interview young folks making 80 in a town with median house price of 800, double ridiculous, they’re getting it the worst

12 minutes ago, SeaDawg said:

My elite 1, in 2008, was probably slightly more than  half the price of today's elite 1. 

As far as I can tell it was a 40% hike in two years, the II being approx 50k in 2020. Also folks you don’t need to bring in discussion of business ethics as that’s not the point, my comment was to the fact that I and I’m sure other folks in the market are not happy with the situation, so many will be rational and sit it out. Pricing is what the market will bear, plain and simple as all good business people will do. And unfortunately what usually happens in such a situation is that prices skyrocket, and then slowly deflate in the inevitable downturn that occurs afterwards (and shoppers cool off). For RVs in particular that appears to have begun.

A nice fat recession will knock those material prices right down and in fact it’s already happening. Anyhow amateur economist here, enough said … 

[Mike and Carol]

10 hours ago, DanielBoondock said:

As far as I can tell it was a 40% hike in two years, the II being approx 50k in 2020.

50K in 2020 seems low to me…

[dewdev]

12 hours ago, DanielBoondock said:

Salaries haven’t kept up with inflation since 2000, except in public sector jobs where they gave 3% like clockwork. Now they generally make as much as private, plus the pension plan, it’s a joke. I interview young folks making 80 in a town with median house price of 800, double ridiculous, they’re getting it the worst

As far as I can tell it was a 40% hike in two years, the II being approx 50k in 2020. Also folks you don’t need to bring in discussion of business ethics as that’s not the point, my comment was to the fact that I and I’m sure other folks in the market are not happy with the situation, so many will be rational and sit it out. Pricing is what the market will bear, plain and simple as all good business people will do. And unfortunately what usually happens in such a situation is that prices skyrocket, and then slowly deflate in the inevitable downturn that occurs afterwards (and shoppers cool off). For RVs in particular that appears to have begun.

A nice fat recession will knock those material prices right down and in fact it’s already happening. Anyhow amateur economist here, enough said … 

Not sure where you got your information of $50K in 2020 for an Elite II, but that is not correct. (Maybe it was the Elite I price.)

Looking at my Oliver trailer receipt, I can tell you that for my 2018 Oliver Elite II, the base price was $54,100,00, not including the main options I have on my trailer. Therefore a 2020 Elite II must have been higher and therefor your % increase is also not correct.

[John E Davies]

The base LE2 Twin was $48,500 in 2017. The new 2023 Twin and Standard will be $73,500. That is a $25,000 increase in SEVEN years. That increase does not equate to real numbers because 2022 dollars are 16% lower than 2017 dollars in actual purchase power, due to inflation. You can’t compare apples to oranges.

https://olivertraveltrailers.com/forums/topic/7141-new-trailer-pricing-2023-le2-vs-2017-le2/

Let’s keep our numbers straight, please. There have been small annual increases but almost always they have included some additional standard features. It is only during the pandemic that it got “out of hand” due to supply delays and cost increases.

And you don’t have to buy that $16k (!!!) lithium 640 AH package.

John Davies

Spokane WA

[Shawna and Scott]

44 minutes ago, dewdev said:

Not sure where you got your information of $50K in 2020 for an Elite II, but that is not correct. (Maybe it was the Elite I price.)

Looking at my Oliver trailer receipt, I can tell you that for my 2018 Oliver Elite II, the base price was $54,100,00, not including the main options I have on my trailer. Therefore a 2020 Elite II must have been higher and therefor your % increase is also not correct.

John beat me to it but I will add this.

We just picked up our Elite ll  on July 22. The base price for ours was $65K. So they have only went up $11K from 2018. 

I will add we happily paid what was asked for. After reading posts on here for over 4 years and talking with folks at Oliver I believe you get way more than just a travel trailer with Oliver. Just my opinion.

Edited August 10, 2022 by Shawna and Scott
add another point

[Rivernerd]

35 minutes ago, Shawna and Scott said:

I will add we happily paid what was asked for. After reading posts on here for over 4 years and talking with folks at Oliver I believe you get way more than just a travel trailer with Oliver. Just my opinion.

I have mixed feelings about this issue that highlight the difference between micro and macro economic analysis.  We take delivery of a 2022 Elite II in November, with a base price of $65K, and a much higher total price with the options we have selected.  From a "micro" perspective, we would, personally, prefer to pay less.  But we are grateful we are not paying for a 2023 model!

The "macro" view is explained by simple supply/demand analysis and adjustment for inflation.  The referenced price increases are quite predictable given the surge in RV demand caused by the pandemic, and the inflation surge of the past year+, which has been driven by increased material and labor costs.  Given these factors, one could argue that Olivers have been underpriced for the market from 2016 through 2022.  Thus, from a "macro" perspective, we are paying less than true "market value" for our 2022 Elite II.

[Shawna and Scott]

1 hour ago, Rivernerd said:

I have mixed feelings about this issue that highlight the difference between micro and macro economic analysis.  We take delivery of a 2022 Elite II in November, with a base price of $65K, and a much higher total price with the options we have selected.  From a "micro" perspective, we would, personally, prefer to pay less.  But we are grateful we are not paying for a 2023 model!

The "macro" view is explained by simple supply/demand analysis and adjustment for inflation.  The referenced price increases are quite predictable given the surge in RV demand caused by the pandemic, and the inflation surge of the past year+, which has been driven by increased material and labor costs.  Given these factors, one could argue that Olivers have been underpriced for the market from 2016 through 2022.  Thus, from a "macro" perspective, we are paying less than true "market value" for our 2022 Elite II.

I agree and understand all those points.

It is hard to tell someone "its a good deal" because most of us do not know the other persons situation.  Everyone has different goals, are at different stages of our lives, and in different financial situations. We felt for us at this time it fit what we wanted to do now and in the future. We have no regrets and look forward to the next 15-20 years traveling  and hopefully meeting several of you.

I do think some people are missing the value of the "Oliver Family" which includes everyone at Oliver and the owners. It is hard to put a dollar value on service and folks on this forum who have been willing to help me and answer my questions. I only hope I can pay it forward now.

 

[ScubaRx]

20 hours ago, SeaDawg said:

I really wish they'd roll it back a bit. Include fewer items that should, imo, be options.  Many people don't need, or even want, what's in the base package. And, some non-techie folks shouldn't want it.

There are those of us that will remember Oliver’s ill fated foray into building a more “affordable” trailer. A steel frame, cheap plastic hardware, no standard equipment like a furnace or an air conditioner. The Sport, they called it. They built a single example and even at about the same price as a new SOB, it sat unsold at the factory for 5 or 6 years. Nobody seriously considering an Oliver wants that and anyway, there’s already a stripped down Oliver. It’s called a Casita.

[SeaDawg]

Not talking about building a sport or a Casita type trailer, Steve.

I'm talking about  things like no fibergranite on your countertops.  And I,  for one,have no desire for  a power awning on an Elite 1. The fibergranite used to be a 1500 or 1800 dollar option. I don't know the cost difference between manual and electric awnings, but I'd guess it's at least $500. So, minimum $2k off the price of an Elite, and I  sure wouldn't miss them. I love my molded sink and white countertops. I think you have them in your 2, as well, if I  remember correctly. 

Even our original Elites came standard with ac, furnace, etc. I wouldn't suggest stripping those out as an option. Oliver has indeed successfully positioned themselves as the luxe entry in fiberglass world. 

Lots of things are different,  over a decade later.

 

[AZ Wonderer]

8 hours ago, Rivernerd said:

I have mixed feelings about this issue that highlight the difference between micro and macro economic analysis.  We take delivery of a 2022 Elite II in November, with a base price of $65K, and a much higher total price with the options we have selected.  From a "micro" perspective, we would, personally, prefer to pay less.  But we are grateful we are not paying for a 2023 model!

I just finalized my options today on a 2023 model to be delivered early January.  Yikes!  But, after having several issues with a traditionally-built trailer and an entirely unacceptable experience with the dealer who sold it to me, the value of the Oliver, with its superior construction and level of customer and fellow owners support, makes it worth the premium cost.

[Hokieman]

On 8/10/2022 at 10:02 AM, John E Davies said:

Let’s keep our numbers straight, please. There have been small annual increases but almost always they have included some additional standard features.

The base price for my 2021 Elite 2 was $57,500, ordered September 2020.   I made a  list of the LE2 base prices that folks have posted in this thread. 

2017 $48,500

2018 $54,100

2019 $53,900

2020 $55,000

2021 $57,500

2022 $65,000

2023 $73,500

Unfortunately, you cannot use these base prices alone to do a cost increase analysis.   As John D pointed out, there were many popular optional features in previous models, that were included in the base price as standard in subsequent years.   If you wanted to do a good analysis, you’d have to dissect the build sheet on all model years and factor it into the cost.  I’m happy with my decision to buy an Oliver. 

Edited August 11, 2022 by Mike D.
Edited to include 2019 base price

[Galway Girl]

$53,900 was EII Twin base price for our 2019