Leaderboard

Ok, I'll bite. As a point of reference: As a matter of record, my background includes 25 years of manufacturing, where quality - built-in, inspected in, repaired in, or otherwise, was the metric driving success. I fully know what it takes to build - repetitively - a product that meets design spec, and fulfills quality standards - which if done correctly - meet or exceed customer expectations. My standards are usually much higher than others, yet tempered with reasonable expectations, given the product and process. Has quality improved with the Oliver product- I have no idea, without multiple data points, no trend exists. Subjective opinion may or may not indicate a quality issue, as it may be nothing more than preference. It is kind of a - based upon what, subjective - it meets my expectation- proposal. So, how is the quality level of my 2018 Oliver Elite II, #359, delivered in July, 2018. Overall - My experience leads me to state - Oliver delivered quality is far higher than industry standard, given "my" comparisons to competitors products. My unit met my expectations for a $70K rv. I found a few issues that should have been found in the delivery process - most revolve around exterior finish - most issues I took care of with elbow grease and polish. There are some design issues I find questionable, but, they were executed to design spec, and thus not actually a quality defect. Perhaps the question you are posing - Are you as a customer, Satisfied with the purchase of the Oliver? Given my relatively short ownership experience I can say, yes, very much so, and in some respects, the more time I spend with the Ollie, the more my satisfaction increases. Edit -In the end, only the consumer decides what "quality" is or is not. However, I too often chuckle at what people find fault with, and why. Point or reference is important, a former aircraft technician, sees things with a different perspective than say an accountant, neither is wrong, both have valid opinions. I would love to see Oliver internal quality metrics over time, customer feedback since the reboot, and their documented quality process. Yes I took the tour, I knew what I was looking at, and I have a good idea of their process capability, and actually am pleased with their level of execution, given my observations. The tour was perhaps the determining factor on my purchase, that and reputation for customer response. One day, given their success, the personal touch I value, will diminish, and Oliver will find itself running with the rest of the industry. I hope not, but it seems inevitable.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, please, you seem to be lacking a few people skills, hopefully it's just the way I'm reading it, you posed the question, others try to respond to be helpful with what they've experienced and seen based on what they have and what they have found. You get snippy and clarify that you only want, other people, to provide information if they're talking about 1 specific truck and then state that you are tired of doing research for others while everyone else is doing just that for you. Backofbeyond quotes "Rumline – Exactly. I was mislead by the OEM websites and brochures on payloads." Trying to help you out *you know* "experienced advice I’m supposed to rely on” You then post you have the real numbers because you had a trustworthy salesman send you a sheet, as was stated earlier, the only numbers that matter are what is on the door post. The "real" numbers you have are the brochure numbers I guess you can lead a horse to water...

Starting in the Southwest corner, Snow Canyon SP, stayed there a couple years ago, midsummer 110° temps, you can do full hookups or one of the outlier spots with nothing, look from Google satellite. It's just west of St George and the rocks and overall area is great for exploring. It was interesting, on one of our walks, we saw, at a very long distance, telephoto lens, a local "dragon" lizard thing, I don't remember what it was called, when we were explaining/asking the park ranger about it she said we must have been mistaken about what we were describing, so I showed her the video of what I'd captured after which she asked for a copy because they had never had any record of them behaving like that and wanted to forward it all the way up the chain for their research.

For Oliver owners, I'm offering up my place to camp if you're between planned stops, and would like a day or two to collect your thoughts. We have a "farm" with plenty of open space, water, and a place to dump your tanks if needed. Electricity is available, but most likely just a 20 amp circuit. We are located on the south side of Tim's Ford Lake, in Winchester TN. Our location is about 20 min to Jack Daniel Distillery, Lynchburg, TN about 40 min from George Dickel Distillery, Winchester, TN. We are about 1 hour to Chattanooga, and 2 hrs. to Nashville. Lots to do if you have never spent much time in this area. Easy entry off a paved road, and grassy treed area for camping. For more information you can contact me by email : rrbounds gmail.com This an exclusive offer to Oliver Travel Trailer owners only. The cost to camp is about what this post cost me...

I could not agree more with John Davies, who came up with this? We were driving home and the mount on the bracket decided to deploy on it own'', You could hear the TV crash in the downward Position. Hell we were doing 60MPH and you could hear it in the Truck! This is my fix a velcro strap........The best i could come up with.

A hitch caution: watch where you place your fingers. We squeezed the hitch closed with the left hand, and quickly released the slide with the right. The left index finger ended up to close to the slide. The slide quickly removed several layers of skin. We sure release the slide with a lot more caution and control now. Three months later and it is still sensitive when we think about it. A great reminder to have a good and complete first aide kit on board, readily available, and know how to use it. Hopefully just for a neighbor... (Thanks, going to paint my hitch, hopefully not red)

Bought a new 2018 GMC 2500 Duramax SLT 4x4 today. ~$10K under MSRP. We were just too close to GVWR on the Tundra. Torque and exhaust brakes are definate bonuses too. Hope to hitch her up next weekend for a test run with the Ollie.?

Spike's method worked for me!

I don’t have any suggestions for RV camping, but if you are at all interested in 4wd roads the White Rim Road in Canyonlands is beyond stunning. Camping is allowed, but only in a dozen designated spots and you can’t tow an Ollie. You could camp near Moab, rent a Wangler, and drive the best part of the White Rim, the east half (out and back) in a day. A stock 4wd shortbed pickup with good clearance (not a Chevy) could do this part, no problem, but a raised suspension and tough tires are best. This is our old Series 80 LX450... good memories. https://www.nps.gov/cany/planyourvisit/whiterimroad.htm If you get further northwest in your travels, Great Basin NP is stunning and very uncrowded. Most people have never even heard of it. It is 100 miles north of Lake Meade right at the border in Nevada. There are a number of typical forested USFS campgrounds along the 5000 ft drive to the top, but Wheeler Peak CG at nearly 10,000 feet is the one to visit. It can be really breezy that high up and there is risk of snow. Nearby Wheeler Glacier (13,000 ft) is the southernmost glacier in North America. Lots of golden aspen this time of year. Remote. Gorgeous rugged alpine scenery. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Basin_National_Park John Davies Spokane WA

When we visited Moab last year we stayed at Horsethief BLM campground. They have 60 sites, no reservations. We were there last September driving from Mesa Verde, CO and arrived around noon. We had our choice of campsites. It’s just outside of Moab in between Canyonlands and Arches NP’s. Nice level gravel pads, picnic table. No hookups. Very clean vault toilets. $15. We would stay there again. Mike

For all those planning to attend the 2019 Rally, I'm offering up my place to camp before or after the rally. We have a "farm" with plenty of open space, water, and a place to dump you tanks if needed. Electricity is available, but most likely just a 20 amp circuit. We are located on the south side of Tim's Ford Lake, in Winchester TN. Our location is about 20 min to Jack Daniel Distillery, Lynchburg, TN about 40 min from George Dickel Distillery, Winchester, TN. We are about 1 hour to Chattanooga, and 2 hrs. to Nashville. Lots to do if you have never spent much time in this area. Easy entry off a paved road, and grassy treed area for camping. For more information you can contact me by email : rrbounds -- at ---- gmail ----- .com.

I hope that you can eventually reopen the lines of communication with your children. It may be a long and problematic road, but I hope you can find a path. I'm a mom. My worst camping days are when i can't get even a text to and from my daughter. I feel hollow, without knowing she is ok.

We took possession of our Ollie this week. We spent two nights camping locally (Natchez Trace) which turned out to be a great idea as it gave us time to field test all of the systems and get comfortable. We are now home and planning the maiden voyage - a three week loop thru south Florida. Happy Campers with big plans - looking at her makes us want to leave home.

We plan on a two-week-or-so jaunt through Southern Utah in a couple of weeks. I have been through the area a few times before becoming an Oliver owner but would love to learn of some good camping spots from folks who have discovered them on their trips. We live in Arizona and plan to start in the southwestern corner, perhaps exiting Utah in the Moab-Bluff area. We will probably travel Highway 12--which I consider, with the exception of Highway 1 in CA, to be the most scenic of all US highways. We would like to visit as many national parks as possible but don't have a lot of confidence in nabbing campsites within the parks without reservations, so camping recommendations near the parks or just along the vague route I have described would be appreciated. I know someone on this forum has mentioned Kodachrome Basin, which I have not yet visited but plan to this time and would like to learn of camping suggestions in that area. Our traveling pattern has been to alternate boon-dock camping and hook-up camping. (We have solar and composting toilet.) Thus recommendations for RV campsites, along with more remote dry-camping locations, would be appreciated. It would also be great to get any helpful comments about what to see and do in different areas. And just in case: We are songwriter/musicians (Western Folk Blues) and love to hook up with other musicians and/or perform in impromptu situations in bars, cafes, etc. Any tips of places or folks to check out for opportunities to share our music would also be appreciated.

We too have been to Snow Canyon and "second" the recommendation. It really is not very far from St. George. The hiking/biking is great. Don't miss the lava caves but don't try to go in. Also, if you are poking around St. George - ask about the dinosaur tracks just north of town near the water tower. Its probably a little more built up compared to the last time we were there, but, you go to the water tower, park and then just walk 100 yards or so to the north to an old dry river bed. Start walking along this river bed to the east and you will shortly start to see the tracks. Hopefully it has not been commercialized in that it made us feel as though we were discovering these for the first time. Bill

It is good for owners to have their forum signatures filled out, so we can see your hull number (along with any other vehicle or personal info you want to share). My hull is 218 and it appears from many conversations that this was a period of very fast growth, accompaned by growing pains, AKA quality control problems. Though I continue to believe that many these issues were PREDICTABLE by management and to a high degree avoidable, and that they have not yet gone far enough to correct the affected trailers. I have yet to see Tech Bulletins for some of the known problems (such as overinflated tires, fresh water pickup tube, window brackets, brake adjustment, airborne drawers, incorrect or missing hardware, poor wiring), so many owners who are not regular Forum readers may be completely unaware of them ... unless they have been contacted directly by phone or email, which is entirely possible. I have no idea if any of these issues are on a Honey Do list tacked to a wall at the factory, and are quietly taken care of in the background during a service visit. I hope so, that would make me feel very good. If I were buying a new Ollie today, I would not have any additional worries. If I were buying used, I would be be sure to get it inspected, and ask for a service history. The trailers truly have come a long way since the very beginning, and they continue to evolve for the better. After 18 months I am still finding things wrong with “Mouse”. I just swear a little (sometimes a lot), fix them, alert others and continue to enjoy this wonderful trailer. I have no qualms whatsoever about recommending that somebody buy one. There is no better built trailer out there, though there are a few better other types of RVs for an lot more $$$$. John Davies Spokane WA

You won’t even notice a trailer behind you until you look in the rear view mirror! Nice truck... Mike

We've been lurking for a year and finally pulled the trigger on an Elite II. We decided to delay pickup until May 14th so we can travel in better weather and then continue on to the rally at Lake Guntersville in May. We've made our reservations for the rally and are really looking forward to meeting everyone. What a perfect shake down trip! If we get confused about something, we'll be surrounded by Ollie Veterans ? We're really looking forward to boondocking and doing a different type of trailering that we've done in years past. LOTS to learn, but hey..... you're never too old to learn new tricks right? ~ Steph and Steve Kimball from Jacksonville, OREGON

I think I'm tired doing research for others.

Another Oliver owner suggested that I use products produced by a North Carolina company call Duragloss (www.duragloss.com). Previously I used Rejex but after I received a "free" demonstration I was sold - at least on the interior products and for a quick cleaning of the exterior. Using 4 parts Duragloss "Fast Clean & Shine" (923) mixed with 1 part Duragloss "Aquawax" (952) a quick spray and wipe with a microfiber towel cleans and shines EVERYTHING on the interior - including the mirrors - without streaks. I use this same combination for getting bugs off the front and general cleanup of the exterior. I also bought Duragloss RV wax but I've not had a chance to use it yet. While most of us can afford it, Rejex is certainly not the cheapest product around and Duragloss is cheaper even with the shipping included. If the Duragloss exterior wax is anything like the other two products that I've used I will not return to Rejex. Bill

We went to the Oregon coast this past July with our Oliver, and it was fabulous. We stayed at Fort Stevens State Park, and it was great. Bring your bikes as, the park has great bike trails. One other thing. Oregon has fantastic highway bridges along Highway 101. They are treasures, aesthetically, architecturally, and from an engineering standpoint. If you like the bridges, there is is a nice free museum called the Historic Alsea Bay Bridge Interpretive Center, in Waldport, OR. It is just south of the Waldport Bridge that crosses Alsea Bay. The bridge at Newport, OR.

We still use it for that reason. It helps with the porpoiseing although there is not much with the 2500 without it. I probably would not use it if we did not already have it.

In your situation with that size TV I would think that the major benefit of using the Andersen would be that it helps to dampen "bouncing" or "porpoiseing" normally caused by bridges on Interstates. That and the fact that in using the Andersen there is an additional attachment point between the TV and the camper which makes me feel a tad safer. Bill

For long travels I like to keep my fat tire EBike inside, for short trips it can ride in the isle, once stationary it lives in the back of the truck. No racks.

Bill, While I was at the "Mothership" last week I noticed that that bolt covers are now included on all new Olivers and said something to Jason and Richie about it. I guess that they felt sorry for me because when I got Twist back from some minor repairs, the covers were there. If you are interested, the bolt size (according to Richie) is 1/2 inch and the covers/caps are available at Lowe's and probably Ace and Home Depot too. Bill

Rumline - Exactly. I was mislead by the OEM websites and brochures on payloads. Seems they want you to think the trucks can do "this" but in reality they are individually rated at less than "that". You must reference the trucks load sticker on the cab frames, that Is the definitive source. Most 1/2 tons are inadequate when you figure in 7oolbs tongue weight. (Not going to quibble - round up!). Then add in two adults 330+/-, maybe a dog, 95 (mine), and sans any additional gear you are at 1125lbs +/-, oh, what about fuel, you get the point, the vast majority of 1/2 tons are very close to their legal limits. Make a mistake, and over load, head down the road, have an accident, doesn't matter who's at fault, the Lawyers check load limits, do some calcs, and there goes your retirement, and everything else. Funny thing, I was certain the Fords I desired had a payload limit far better than the GMC I wasn't considering, after checking 5 fords and two GMC 2500's I found out other wise. My GMC 2500 is rated 400 lbs. higher than a comparable Ford. Yet the glossy brochure showed a much different picture. I wanted a truck - because I love Trucks, and I intended to put a Leer shell on the back. By the way, I have driven almost every vehicle GM has made since 2000, (and the top comparable vehicles of most of the competition on "Track days"). I always preferred a truck, my choice. That was another time, another planet. The Ram popularity baffles me, but then again so does my wife, and she is always correct. It doesn't really matter if the truck has enough motor, you tap out at the payload limits, and then most likely GCWR, if not max tow weight. Ignore this legal conundrum at your peril. That is why I ended up going 3/4 ton, the rest, - motor, 4wd, etc., was just dessert. Ok - fun for all, I'm done discussing TV's , done, done done, , they are like Opinions and , well we all have them. If I had my choice. I would simply teleport my junk to where I wanted it, and show up, when I felt like it. But then, this isn't the Sci-Fi channel. Good Day!

We are getting 14-15 MPH depending on our speed and terrain.

I signed up about week ago for 2019 and it's already filling up. Last year I was hesitant to go because it was so far. We live in Northern Nevada. But we decided to go after talking to Scott Oliver and I am really glad we did! The thing about trips is you can never judge them before you go and they always turn out to be so much better than imagined. So we took off with the absolute minimum of planning. We didn't even take a map and only had the destination date in mind. We wandered around and stopped when and where we wanted too. Sometimes 500 miles more east and sometimes a 100 mile detour to see something. We saw the vast emptiness of Nevada, Valley of the Gods, The Rio Grande and The Johnson Space Center. We toured the Oliver factory, visited Muscle Shoals Alabama and the Fame Music Studio, where so much music came from, toured the Helen Keller Museum, toured a Frank Lloyd Wright house, camped next to the Tennessee River at McFarland Park and had a marvelous dinner on a floating restaurant on a perfect evening. Crossed Mobile Bay on the ferry, and played in the Gulf behind the Flori-Bama Bar in Pensacola. we stopped at a "picnic area" in Texas for the night and the thunder and lightening was so powerful we stayed in the truck until it passed, nobody around for miles, and watched in wonder. Afterward everything was fresh, a fantastic rainbow and and evening with an endless view. We made zero reservations along the way and found so may beautiful places to stop for the night. Oh, and we had a great time at Guntersville. Met some great people and made some long term friends. Oliver went all out to make a very nice, fun and casual event. Coming home we played it by ear again and were able to wander along at a speed we chose. Cruised through Quartzsite after the rush and stayed in a BLM campsite, by ourselves, for free. Stopped in Death Valley and soaked in the hot springs for a couple of days as our last major stop before the final leg home. About 60 miles in on a gravel road and 60 miles back out on another gravel road. The last 6 miles is across the desert with almost no road at all. Finally, the Oasis arrives. Wild burros casually stroll by, looking for a cookie. Warm clear water fills beautiful soaking pools. Besides our nights at the rally, we only paid for four nights to camp during the month long trip. Two were $7. and two were $10. Each with full hookups. We entered federal parks for free with my Senior Card. If you want some good sippin' whiskey, be sure to get some Kirkland Premium Small Batch Bourbon at Costco before you go. It's hard to get and twice the price in Alabama. The final couple hundred miles up 395 wander through the eastern Sierra and past Mono Lake. Then up to 8,000 ft. A refreshing thundershower rinsed the truck and Ollie. We left pounds of dirt on the highway and got home with a clean rig. Two months later I eagerly signed up for the next one. We'll probably cruise through Yellowstone this time and see some different parts of the South that I'm so unfamiliar with. Alabama is full of beautiful parks. The food is delicious and everyone was very friendly. Heck, we might even take a map this time!

I'm curious what that plastic sheet was in the basement. Doesn't sound like anything we had on ours. Glad the milk crates worked out for you. They really do pack in there just right. On the table, have you considered replacing the top with one of the foldable teak ones? We had planned on storing ours at night, and had bought a fabric case for it from here. But we quickly learned that the folded table isn't in the way for sleeping, and in fact is pretty convenient to have up all the time. Plus, even folded it was still a bit of a pain to take down and store. When we were at Glacier last month, I saw that the camp host had the WeBoost attached to a mast on the back of his trailer. He said that it really improved the signal being able to raise it up - I'd say he had it five or six feet above his trailer. I'm thinking that might be a project for the future. As much as I like our Cradlepoint router for other reasons, it's antenna doesn't really get much better of a signal than we get on our phones.

Hi all.....I'm sorry that some owners have had issues with their Olivers, I'm sure it's been heartbreaking but I do believe that the Oliver team will take care them, learning from their issues and helping all of us. We will be picking our Ollie up the 31st of the month. I know I've build up some high expectations after lurking these board for so long but I'm also a realist & aware that nothing is perfect. Even the most expensive motorhomes have problems! It's how those problems are addressed by the manufacturer that makes the difference. From what I have heard here and at the rally, the Oliver company truly cares about their owners and goes out of their way to take care of problems, regardless of whether they are on warranty or off. To me, that says it all. They may be having some growing pains but they'll get it all worked out, I'll bet on that! Clair & I started started out, many years ago, with a small pop up trailer. I really loved it and we had so much fun! Clair broke 3 fishing poles that he'd tucked inside when he pulled the beds out during a rain storm one night. He was not a happy camper. We moved on from that unit to a small 5th wheeler that we pulled with an under powered & very old Dodge truck. That was interesting & quite funny at times, to say the least. I enjoyed the 5th wheeler but Clair hated the siding on it. It was far to difficult to keep clean and drove him crazy with black streaks....so we moved on to a small Class C. That one was a big mistake, we both hated it! So, that was traded for a larger Class C that we lovingly named "Big Bertha". For some reason, it didn't suit us for very long but it was nice when we were showing our dogs. From there we moved on to a Titanium 5th wheeler that turned out to be a wonderful unit but we had to let it go with the economic downfall. I kept telling my husband that I wanted an Oliver when we retired because I wanted something small, easy to travel with, and easy to clean but we had a few years to wait for that. A couple years ago we decided it was time to start camping again. We wanted something small so we ended up with our 26 ft. Rockwood. It's OK but doesn't meet up to the standards of any of our others and it's got constant nagging little issues. Just little things but it's always something. On our last trip a weld broke on one of the supports holding up the gray water tank. We had cars & trucks flagging us down on that one...sparks flying everywhere. I'm very happy that we chose to go with the Oliver Elite II. I know that we will be happy even if we do have a few minor issues here and there. We want this one to be our forever trailer. There are so many things to love about the Oliver! I know it's not for everybody but it's definitely for us. We can get the same experience we had when we were in our pop up living in a classy, easy to clean, modern Ollie. I am getting so excited, can't you tell!? I have all of the bedding made and I've been pulling together the basics for inside, trying to keep it as simple possible. Clair has everything prepped for outside. Just a few more days guys and we will be part of the Oliver family! Smiles....Kathy

After putting many miles on two Legacy Elite ll's, it is my opinion that the quality has gone up, not down. Sorry to disagree but, we have been on two long trips with our current trailer, and we have had only a few minor issues and nothing that the Oliver people haven't quickly addressed while under warranty. Recently while on our way home from the west coast, we stopped in Hohenwald to have the bearings greased and a couple of other minor out-of-warranty issues addressed. We had the opportunity to see some of the new Olivers and we were impressed. As far as the problem with the fresh water tanks and leveling: Although I'm not anal about leveling, I do try to get the trailer mostly level side to side, but I've always had the trailer slightly higher in the front. No one has ever told me to do this, but I've always just thought that would be better for draining the shower and we've never had an issue with the fresh water tank. Also having the trailer slightly higher in the front is not noticeable to us while in the trailer. We have never had an issue with the refrigerator, so I assume that it doesn't hurt the fridge.

I'm currently a Building Official but from the time I was in High School, for the next 30 years I was in manufacturing. I ran a plant that made flight control systems for military and civilian aircraft. This equipment was mostly actuators that controlled flight surfaces like flaps, tail rudder, pitch and yaw, for Black Hawk helicopters, F-16 Falcon, YF-22, F-14, Boeing and Airbus. Most of the components were manufactured in house, but we also had a substantial vendor list. In that high volume and high precision environment I learned one thing: You cannot INSPECT quality into your finished product. On paper, a thorough inspection process at intervals of manufacturing a product looks good. In reality however, the inspection process becomes the proverbial 'Chinese fire drill'...feedback from units in service in the field identifies problems, engineering isolates cause, manufacturing may (or may not) change methods or materials. That fire gets extinguished, but in the months of tunnel vision type focus, other fires ignite. This is inevitable as the production must continue to meet customer demand. Minor problems related to the manufacturing process appear in different settings or sub systems, and the chasing of the tail continues. Granted, a huge issue like axles failing or something catching fire may 'stop the presses' until the issue is resolved. That does not seem to be the case here with Oliver Trailers. From what I can glean, the 'problems' are related to the manufacturing process and vendor issues. In the type of environment where the product is a travel trailer, the standard of each task is very difficult to illustrate much less define. This is because it is imprecise work done mostly by hand. The main issue here would be the training of the operator or performer of that task. Let's look at a totally hypothetical 'problem'...rats nest type unsecured wiring behind the round hatches. In a plant like Oliver's one or two personnel may be the key components of this operation. Joe and Bill are meticulous in their wiring methods, everything tied, secured, shrink wrapped, etc. Bill took a position in the whirlpool manufacturing line, Joe is on leave as his wife just delivered their second baby. Does the wiring process stop because these two experts are not available? No. The foreman assigns the next 2 capable people but they aren't nearly as fluent in electrical workmanship as Bill and Joe. But the job gets done albeit with the possibility of future failure. And this potential human fault is at every step, from molding to chassis welding, to systems installation. The key to quality in an environment like this is to develop standards, high standards, and provide training and cross training to employees to ensure these standards are met. It does not eliminate inspection but instead shifts the concept of quality from inspection into the manufacturing process itself. Focus on the process. This began with Demmings and ended up with ISO-9000 and beyond. This I believe, is where Oliver should put forth great effort. Oliver has an opportunity here. The RV industry as a whole is experiencing a surge in demand that it hasn't seen in 25 years. Oliver makes a unique product. They are also by industry measures, the most expensive/ sq.ft. of anything out there. They must step up as the innovative producer they are and garnish that innovation with a reputation of unparalleled quality. I don't believe they are far off from it. What they do or fail to do within the next 2-3 years will affect the future of their trailer business.

When I started researching bike racks for the back of the Oliver, like Don Thompson who started this thread, I found that for many bike racks, mounting them on a towed vehicle voids the warranty. I wondered why, and I searched the internet with terms like “catastrophic bike rack failure trailer.” There are lots of examples and discussions on trailer forums. Most (all?) of these failures are on stickbuilt trailers, where they have bolted a receiver hitch onto a possibly flimsy bumper. And catastrophic failure can occur. After seeing this, I figured that the lawyers for Thule and Yakima were simply doing their jobs and voiding the warranties when the racks are on trailers. I felt that the Oliver bike rack was much stronger, and I would take my chances. After my research I decided on the Yakima Holdup bike rack that fits into a receiver hitch, and I am quite happy with it. I have the rear view camera, and I can see the rack as the car travels, and the rack and the bikes are remarkably stable. The new Oliver design for a rear bike rack that Yvonne & Doug posted pictures of looks very good; it was not available when we ordered our unit. However my reason for posting here is that for some people there is a good rationale for a standard bike rack. I am an experienced bike rider. I commute to work by bike and I did cycle touring multiple summers. I am comfortable riding on many kinds of roads. My wife, in contrast, is happiest riding on an empty road with wide shoulders; even better is a protected bike path. So for us, the campground may be on a poor road by my wife’s preferences. However, if we transfer the bike rack from the trailer to the tow vehicle, we can transport the bikes to a more desirable bike path. We camped at a BLM campground last month near Moab. The road was narrow with no shoulders. However, eight miles away there was a great bike path along the Colorado River. Some photos enclosed. There is a bridge across the Colorado River for bikes and pedestrians, and at each of the bridge piers there are wonderful sculptures of rock and steel. David

Just to toss another option out there, for those who are sporting the coverless spare look, a tire mounted rack for a jeep might be a good choice...