Tire Pressures and Delivery Issues (split from Hull 735 Launched)

[Moonlight Mile]

1 hour ago, JRK said:

Bill

I am feeling special today, as I got the vin for the Elite I, same as yours, that will be picked up in 6 weeks. I will be looking forward to hearing from you about what you have learned the first few days about what may have not been told, or changes you made from recommendations for delivery team, such as reducing the tire pressue. 

Vehicle registration paperwork is on the way.

Enjoy the ride.

John

FWIW the state inspector here was *horrified* to see my tires at 85 and 90. Reduced to 55. He wanted to go lower. He’s been towing all his life. He is in his 60s. “YMMV.”

[John E Davies]

1 hour ago, SherMica said:

FWIW the state inspector here was *horrified* to see my tires at 85 and 90. Reduced to 55. He wanted to go lower. He’s been towing all his life. He is in his 60s. “YMMV.”

We forum members are also horrified, why does the Service Dept not adjust them correctly right before delivery??? This has been a well kmown issue for many many years. Have you bought a TPMS kit for the trailer yet? It should be at the top of your Honey Do list. Get one that also shows the tire temperature. A properly inflated tire flexes a little (it is not rock hard), cushioning the frame and hull over rough surfaces and bumps. It will heat up a little as you cruise the freeway, as will the pressure increase slightly. It is neat to be able to check each one to see what is going on, plus the spare tire, which obviously won’t react like the ones doing all the work.

John Davies

Spokane WA

[BackofBeyond]

That got right past me -  In my former life - auto manufacturing - Tire pressure was simply another quality spec to be met and monitored. Oliver is certainly missing the boat here. It is a production issue - service should verify - but the manufacturing folks own this.....its similar to torque specs - inherent to the process. Unless Oliver has no spec - then its a complete miss. 

Perhaps the only requirement is the tires hold air. 😬😬

Miffed.

RB

 

[topgun2]

Guys - 

Please be a bit careful on this topic of tire pressure - at least for the time being.  Certainly advice about "real world" "normal" tire pressures are well within the parameters of discussion.

There is reason to believe that Oliver has historically set these tire pressures at the maximum recommended pressure due to a number of factors (legal, advertising maximum payloads, possible RVIA requirements, etc.).  It is a very simple matter for the owner to reduce that pressure to whatever they want at delivery or after and then the owner is responsible for the care and maintenance of those tires.

One of the Moderators has recently requested information about this subject from Oliver and I'm sure that the results of that inquiry will be posted as soon as they are available.

Bill

[John E Davies]

Bill, most owners never think about rock hard tires until they find their blinds shaken loose, the drawer contents jumbled, or in the case of older trailers, entire drawers broken free to lie on the floor. It is not just a minor inconvenience, on rough highways it will definitely shake the heck out of the entire trailer. This generates a lot of unnecessary ill will toward Oliver. I think we should keep after them at the very least to explain it to the new owner at delivery day. The manual is full of required technical warnings like sidewalk codes and speed ratings, but not a single word about setting the pressure correctly based on the tire manufacturer’s own published load recommendation chart. Light truck LT tires on a trailer are cool, but you cannot operate them as if each one was carrying 3000 pounds of weight, when in a fully loaded LE2 each carries 1500... The whole situation is mind boggling to me.

John Davies

Spokane WA

Edited February 6, 2021 by John E Davies

[topgun2]

JD - 

I FULLY understand the point.  All I'm asking is that inflammatory comments be withheld until an explanation is received.  Thank you for your understanding.

Bill

[Landrover]

Another item that needs to be checked before delivery. Brake adjustment I had no brakes when I first stared out. I was told not to worry they will self adjust within 200 miles. (Really) A lot of bad things can happen with no brakes for 200 miles I did mention they may want to rethink that thought for safety concerns and make sure the brakes are properly adjusted before delivery. Not sure if they  listened.

[Maverick]

9 minutes ago, Landrover said:

Another item that needs to be checked before delivery. Brake adjustment I had no brakes when I first stared out. I was told not to worry they will self adjust within 200 miles. (Really) A lot of bad things can happen with no brakes for 200 miles I did mention they may want to rethink that thought for safety concerns and make sure the brakes are properly adjusted before delivery. Not sure if they  listened.

When Our Oliver Elite II was delivered to us no brake wires were attached.  The wires were just hanging down under the trailer not attached to anything; also the wire coming from the tow vehicle was just hanging under the trailer.  It just proves when picking up a new trailer, you need to check everything (craw under the trailer and have Oliver provide a ladder so you can get up on the roof to check out things.

[JRK]

JD

what is the correct pressure for a single axle, elite I? Oliver has said, second hand info, it is 80 psi, as that is what the delivery team specifically stated. 
bill, not inflammatory. But the factory/corporate needs to get the act together. There are multiple issues listed here that are specifically quality control issues, not appliance or third party manufacturer issues-Oliver issues. 
john

[Overland]

The correct answer is that it depends - not everyone’s trailer weighs the same and not every tire requires the same pressure. And with a single axle, there will be more variation in correct pressures than with the Elite II. Looking at the chart for my particular tires, the correct pressure for an Elite I could be anywhere from 45 psi, for a trailer that runs close to the dry weight, to 70 psi, for one that runs close to its gross weight.

So the ideal solution is to have your trailer weighed when loaded as you typically travel, then consult the load chart for your specific tire and adjust your pressures accordingly, maybe adding 5 psi or so as a safety margin.  You can typically find the load chart for your tires on the manufacturer’s website.  Having said that, running higher pressures isn’t going to damage your tires so long as you aren’t over the maximum pressure listed on the sidewall. It will just mean a harsher ride for your trailer and more work for your shocks.

As stated earlier, it’s would be no surprise and arguably correct if Oliver were to deliver trailers with the tire pressures set for the trailer’s maximum gross weight. So like I said, as long as that pressure doesn’t exceed the maximum pressure for the tire itself, then it’s perfectly fine, though as an owner you may want to lower it to something more appropriate for how you load your trailer. Of course, if Oliver is delivering them at 80 or 90 psi then that’s probably going to be too high regardless.

Personally, I think that the tire pressure is more of an issue in the Elite II, since with two axles you don’t need nearly so much pressure even at the maximum gross weight. 45 or 50 psi is pretty much the max required, even when fully loaded. So it makes very little sense to deliver them with 70+ psi in the tires.

This has been a well debated topic since before I took delivery of #256 in 2017, as I was warned by a longtime owner at the time that I would need to lower the pressures down. So I know well that Oliver has been asked/told/complained to about the tire pressures and my only guess is that unless they’re being needlessly stubborn, they have a reason for delivering the trailers with tire pressures that high. More likely, perhaps, that the question never makes it to someone who can do something about it. But if there’s a reason, some communication on what that is would be welcome, so I look forward to whatever they have to say. 

Edited February 7, 2021 by Overland

[John E Davies]

1 hour ago, JRK said:

what is the correct pressure for a single axle, elite I? Oliver has said, second hand info, it is 80 psi, as that is what the delivery team specifically stated. 

https://olivertraveltrailers.com/forums/topic/2363-how-to-tire-pressure-placard/

That chart is for the Michelin LTX Load E (10 ply sidewall) tires originally used on older trailers but it should be fine for current ones, since I was told that the size and load rating did not change. Always check your sidewall to be certain! The numbers were taken directly from manufacturer data.

If your LE1 tows fully loaded (5000 lbs trailer weight), there is “about” 4600 lbs on the one axle. So 65 psi would be a good target. Keep an eye on the sidewalk temperature, it is the best indicator of a distressed (under inflated) tire. If you know your actual loaded trailer weight, use that as a reference. You can safely run a higher pressure, but use caution when decreasing it from that target number, adjust in small increments (about 2 psi), run it at the lower pressure for a few hundred miles, and see how it works out. 

A TPMS is a great help, so you can keep an eye on the pressure and temperature. It provides great peace of mind for the driver.

FYI: hard tires are great for fuel economy. You may notice a drop in your mpgs while towing because the softer tire has a bigger contact patch with the road and thus the rolling resistance will be higher. If mileage is a priority, you might want to keep them at a slightly higher value. 

John Davies

Spokane WA

Edited February 7, 2021 by John E Davies

[Jairon]

Any suggestions on pressure for a 2021 Elite II weighing 5000 lbs (unloaded). Ours is being delivered in 3 weeks and I'd rather not have the thing rattled to death by someone that tows these like a feather is hitched up. 🤪 If the factory won't do it for me, I'm hoping the delivery company will.

[NCeagle]

3 hours ago, Jairon said:

Any suggestions on pressure for a 2021 Elite II weighing 5000 lbs (unloaded). Ours is being delivered in 3 weeks and I'd rather not have the thing rattled to death by someone that tows these like a feather is hitched up. 🤪 If the factory won't do it for me, I'm hoping the delivery company will.

Hi Jairon, I settled on 60 psi on our new Elite II (Hull 688).  I read every post I could find on the topic and it seemed 60 psi offered the best combination of gas mileage and being a softer ride for the Elite II contents.  60 psi also has more than enough of a safety margin should a slow leak develop.  You can see from the tire inflation chart JD posted above that with 2500 lbs / axle, you could get by with less than 30 psi (and no safety margin).

[BillATX]

10 hours ago, JRK said:

JD

what is the correct pressure for a single axle, elite I? Oliver has said, second hand info, it is 80 psi, as that is what the delivery team specifically stated. 
bill, not inflammatory. But the factory/corporate needs to get the act together. There are multiple issues listed here that are specifically quality control issues, not appliance or third party manufacturer issues-Oliver issues. 
john

Not sure about other years or the Elite 2, but on my 2021 Elite 1, the Oliver owners manual says 80 PSI, the sticker on the side of the trailer says 80 PSI.  The tires themselves read max cold pressure of 85 PSI.

My trailer was delivered with Cooper Dicoverer HT3 tires.

Edited February 7, 2021 by BillATX
typo

[BackofBeyond]

23 hours ago, topgun2 said:

Guys - 

Please be a bit careful on this topic of tire pressure - at least for the time being.  Certainly advice about "real world" "normal" tire pressures are well within the parameters of discussion.

There is reason to believe that Oliver has historically set these tire pressures at the maximum recommended pressure due to a number of factors (legal, advertising maximum payloads, possible RVIA requirements, etc.).  It is a very simple matter for the owner to reduce that pressure to whatever they want at delivery or after and then the owner is responsible for the care and maintenance of those tires.

One of the Moderators has recently requested information about this subject from Oliver and I'm sure that the results of that inquiry will be posted as soon as they are available.

Bill

Alternate viewpoint - If the delivered pressure is set to the max spec as a design requirement- fine - perhaps Oliver should cover this during delivery.  Full disclosure would help alleviate the concerns of new Oliver owners -  many often new to the RV trailer world. Tire pressures are clearly posted on the GVWR/Tire load ratings label pasted to the Outside of the Oliver shell.  Perhaps - we as Owners- new or otherwise - have a responsibility to be better self -informed on our purchase

The  central point of my comment - was directed towards the roles of service as it pertains to Manufacturing roles and responsibilities. I have and will continue to point out where the two cross - in error - in the Oliver world. This forum - to its credit- is very open to the feedback of customers, past, current, and future. A reoccurring  theme - and real-time in many instances- are customers with real concerns - some minor, some not, and some abhorrent. A brake system not complete and disconnected is a major miss where as  tire pressure - within the design range- not so. An emergency brake  disconnect  cable - to short to accomplish the original design intent- knowingly delivered to the customer, is somewhere in the middle - it will work, but it was not correct.  I fully realize - it is possible- an issue of concern, may not have been accurately portrayed here to the forum readers. Part and parcel of participation. 

As good as Oliver may be in "quality" clearly there is room for improvement. One could make a case that Oliver has "historically" experienced lapses in the production process, and relied upon Jason and crew to make the repair.  Still, Oliver ranks well in the RV universe. We all hope they continue to earn the status.

For my part - tire pressure is an objective design spec - that is subjectively applied to the situation at hand. I made no recommendation as to appropriate settings - only to the issue of responsibility. I would guess- an experienced guess - the supplier has their specs for delivery, Oliver may or may not verify, and the tires/wheels are installed, and the unit goes on its merry way. Does Oliver have a second level verification, not my concern. In any case - add the subject to the delivery process - and the new informed owner can tell the well meaning crusty 60 year young  observer -  perhaps  80 psi seems high, but its in the design  range - I'll need to adjust as I get more acquainted with my new unit.   A confident and informed Oliver owner is a satisfied Oliver owner.

 

Off my soapbox - moderate away. 😉

Respectfully,

A certified,

well meaning,

almost Old guy.

Edit - I target 55psi in my EII- run tire pressure/temp monitors. And visually inspect tires/wheels/ chassis most every stop.

 

Edited February 7, 2021 by BackofBeyond

[Mike and Carol]

27 minutes ago, BillATX said:

Not sure about other years or the Elite 2, but on my 2021 Elite 1, the Oliver owners manual says 80 PSI, the sticker on the side of the trailer says 80 PSI.  The tires themselves read max cold pressure of 85 PSI.

My trailer was delivered with Cooper Dicoverer HT3 tires.

I just replaced my original tires with Cooper Discoverer HT3. I figured Oliver did the research on these, so why not?  When Discount Tire installed them they inflated to 80 psi. I asked why and was told on trailers they inflate to max pressure but most folks air down later. I set mine at 60 in warm San Antonio weather. My TPMS is saying 53 psi in this cold weather here in Arkansas. 
 

When we picked up in 2016 our tires were set at 80 psi. The TV would flop down, window shades would fall off, MW unplugged, etc. went to 55 psi and all that stopped. That was with the original BF Goodrich tires. 
 

BTW, I like these new Coopers. More aggressive looking than the utilitarian looking BF Goodrich. Mike

[xmavrick]

We will be picking up our trailer in late June. After doing a  lot of research on the topic! I plan to leave OTT lot and drive over to Walmart  parking lot where I will set the TP to 55 psi and install TPM system. Does anyone know what tire temperature range is normal at this psi setting. Thanks Gary

[Overland]

Interestingly, when I had a new set of tires put on my truck this past fall, they aired them up to the max and told me that they do that on all LT tires. The dealership also delivered my truck that way even though the door sticker lists much lower pressures. 

[Mike and Carol]

17 minutes ago, xmavrick said:

We will be picking up our trailer in late June. After doing a  lot of research on the topic! I plan to leave OTT lot and drive over to Walmart  parking lot where I will set the TP to 55 psi and install TPM system. Does anyone know what tire temperature range is normal at this psi setting. Thanks Gary

Usually 5 to 10 degrees above ambient temperature. Depends on if tires are in direct sun and how fast you’re going. Mike

[John E Davies]

6 minutes ago, xmavrick said:

We will be picking up our trailer in late June. After doing a  lot of research on the topic! I plan to leave OTT lot and drive over to Walmart  parking lot where I will set the TP to 55 psi and install TPM system. Does anyone know what tire temperature range is normal at this psi setting. Thanks Gary

I run mine at 42 psi with an approximate trailer weight of 6000 pounds. The pressures typically rise several psi when towing. The temperature rises about 4 to 6 degrees  F above ambient air temperature (check your TV dash display, if it has one) while moving. Towing for a long time with the sun blazing hot on one side of the trailer will drive up the temp and pressure on both tires on that side a bit higher. That is perfectly normal, it happens to your truck, and you can feel it with your hand (when stopped please😬). Disregard the pressure and temperature readings when you are parked for a while in the sun on hot pavement.

Get a base measurement with the TPMS in the cool of the morning before you set out, double check with a decent digital tire gauge if you are really anal. You can “wake up” the sensors first thing, while doing your morning walk-around by tapping them with a hard object like a pocket knife  or simply flicking them against the wheel rims using a finger, if they have rubber stems. They have internal motion sensors to bring them “online”. It takes up to 10 or 15 minutes to send data to the monitor. Obviously this is for stem mounted sensors, for the internal kind you have to drive away. Leaving the site without waking them will cause the display to show last night’s pressure, if there was a leak you won’t know it for a while. This is why I always flick mine!

Don’t make any tire pressure changes later in the day. An exception would be if you aired down for nasty off pavement driving and then have to air back up to the highway setting. Do that ASAP before driving more than 30 mph. And then do it again the next morning, because adjusting hot tires will always be mostly a guess.

If you can’t adjust the pressure when it is cool and no sun, double check them later in the trip when they have been in shade for several hours and are cooled down.

John Davies

Spokane WA

 

[topgun2]

39 minutes ago, xmavrick said:

I plan to leave OTT lot and drive over to Walmart  parking lot where I will set the TP to 55 psi and install TPM system. Does anyone know what tire temperature range is normal at this psi setting. Thanks Gary

Certainly your plan of driving over to WalMart is fine.  However, I'm sure that the delivery guys will not kick you out of the delivery area while you adjust your tire pressures.  This will be particularly helpful if it is raining.

Not withstanding the advice above, if a tire that is not in the sun or on very hot pavement increases its temperature more than 10 degrees, you should consider increasing the pressure in that tire(s) - as JD pointed out previously, under inflated tires will run hotter.  Same is true for your tow vehicle

Speaking of tow vehicles - as you increase the weight on those TV tires (particularly the rear tires even when using a weight distribution hitch) you should adjust the pressure to account for that increase in weight.  I run my rear tires 4 to 5 pounds higher when hitched and I use the Andersen WDH.

Bill

[mossemi]

I have said this before and I will say it again, camping under a tarp, in a tent or any sort of a RV is a participation sport.  So be prepared to get involved.

I bought a 6 month old Oliver, so I didn’t get an orientation at the factory.  And the Oliver is my first RV.  Although we did rent a 24' class C in Alaska for 3 weeks in 1999.  So I really was a newbie and I still am.  The little I do know about RV's is what I have learned here on the Oliver forum and other forums that I sometimes visit as well as the things I have learned myself playing in my OTT.
I have been called an "Oliver Fan Boy" before on this forum, so continue reading with that knowledge!

I do have some experience analyzing problems I have come across in life and I usually begin with the question, what did I do wrong.  As an example, I found the front EZ Flex shackle on the street side flipped while setting my jack pads at a new campsite.  When I first looked at it, I didn’t know what was wrong, I just knew it was different than the rear shackle and I really wasn’t sure which shackle was in the correct position.  So I looked at the curbside shackles and determined that it was the only 1 that was different.  So I began thinking about how it happened and how long it had been in that condition and quickly determined that it was a mystery that I probably couldn’t answer.  It was more important that I figure out how to get it back in it’s proper position.  While traveling the next day, I remembered hitting a very large bump crossing the Mississippi River the day before while heading to the campsite where I first discovered the problem and I now believe that is when the shackle must have flipped.  Can I prove that?  No, the best I can do is guess.

Before retirement, I worked in the wireless telephone business for 30 years.  The company provided cell phones as well as more sophisticated equipment for me to test the network.  When air time cost 54 cents per minute and you dropped a call in my territory it was my job to figure out why.  This involved tracking down the call records and recreating the problem and then verifying it was a repeatable issue while drive testing the area and then making a plan to correct it.  And you would be amazed at how many of those dropped calls involved deals that lost million dollar.  Fast forward to unlimited calling plans and I now had tools that allowed me to look at a map with all of the problem calls that happened in a given area by the minute, hour or day.  The bottom line was that I, as an employee was given the tools to test the network just like my customers did and it was pretty effective.

Now my question is:  How many Oliver employees actually own an Ollie?  My guess is not many!  They may own SOB of RV, but I doubt many of the men and women building, servicing and selling the Ollie's we own, could afford to own an Ollie themselves.  That doesn’t mean that they lack pride in the jobs they do, they just may not have the user experience that we OTTO's have.  Their expertise is in building and servicing OTT's and I don’t think that always translates to experience skills.  And most front line employees work from a script and really don’t have any practical experience concerning the the product they are helping you with.  They all learn as they work in a particular job and then they move up to a different job and the process begins again.  There is an acronym for that, OJT.  I know that's how it worked for me in my work experience.

I do agree with topgun2 concerning air down your tires at pickup instead of going to Walmart.  After all, you just might teach somebody with less experience than yourself, something new.  And even if it’s not a teaching moment it may provoke conversation around the break room about the crazy guy that only wanted 50 psi in his tires and that might spark change.

I will add that I generally air my tires up to 50 to 52 psi.  But I didn’t start there, my tires were closer to 80 psi the first time I checked them.

My experiences RVing are just that, mine.  They may or may not apply to your circumstances.

Mossey

[Ken_Judy]

Also remember that with the Andersen Weight distributing hitch installed and adjusted, some of the tongue weight is distributed to the Oliver as well.  A visit to a CAT scale would be in order to dial in your tire pressure.  

[xmavrick]

Thanks to everyone for your comments, I drive a 2019 F250 so there will be no Anderson WD hitch and I am thinking with a payload in the truck bed of about 1000 lbs at most, the psi on the door sticker should be fine Front 60 Rear 65, but a trip to a cat scale is in the plans to establish a base line weight distribution.  John E Davies  , do you have any TP recommendations for going off road ( dirt and gravel or rocky roads ) I ve never pulled a TT before  but southern AZ is my next winters destination for the boon docking experience this coming winter?

[xmavrick]

4 hours ago, topgun2 said:

Certainly your plan of driving over to WalMart is fine.  However, I'm sure that the delivery guys will not kick you out of the delivery area while you adjust your tire pressures.  This will be particularly helpful if it is raining.

Not withstanding the advice above, if a tire that is not in the sun or on very hot pavement increases its temperature more than 10 degrees, you should consider increasing the pressure in that tire(s) - as JD pointed out previously, under inflated tires will run hotter.  Same is true for your tow vehicle

Speaking of tow vehicles - as you increase the weight on those TV tires (particularly the rear tires even when using a weight distribution hitch) you should adjust the pressure to account for that increase in weight.  I run my rear tires 4 to 5 pounds higher when hitched and I use the Andersen WDH.

Bill

Bill your probably correct and I will ask the orientation crew if the mind me using their bay, my reasoning for going to Walmarts was so I won't appear rude or disrespectful of their process and knowledge. Thanks Gary