Broken frame crossbeam?

[jd1923]

3 hours ago, Rivernerd said:

So, the welder who told you to never haul your Elite II with a full tank of water was wrong, since the fresh water tank is forward of the broken welds?

We almost always leave home with a full fresh tank and will continue to do so, unless we are heading straight to a full hookup campsite. It's not that heavy. Full at about 250 LBS across that wide area is not a concern. 

[Geronimo John]

Following is rabbit hole conjecture on my part for your amusement:

• The G-forces on loads behind the center point of the twin axles are lineally amplified by the lever arm distance.  It therefore is good design to have more structural supports behind the axles than in front of them as reported. 

•  As the EZ Flex raises and lowers the axles based upon up/down road bumps/holes/trenches, it could also be adding additional loads to the areas in front and behind the axle center points.  If those are in-phase with the road induced G-forces, the structural member loadings would be increased beyond that mentioned above.

[rideandfly]

13 minutes ago, Geronimo John said:

Following is rabbit hole conjecture on my part for your amusement:

• The G-forces on loads behind the center point of the twin axles are lineally amplified by the lever arm distance.  It therefore is good design to have more structural supports behind the axles than in front of them as reported. 

•  As the EZ Flex raises and lowers the axles based upon up/down road bumps/holes/trenches, it could also be adding additional loads to the areas in front and behind the axle center points.  If those are in-phase with the road induced G-forces, the structural member loadings would be increased beyond that mentioned above.

John,

Hate to be a Monday morning Quarterback, but did you add Coriolis Force?

[johnwen]

9 minutes ago, rideandfly said:

John,

Hate to be a Monday morning Quarterback, but did you add Coriolis Force?

We do deflect to the right up here :)

[routlaw]

Well now I am setting on the edge of my seat waiting to find out the true engineering intent for these cross braces. Maybe Oliver will share with us some day.

[MAX Burner]

(Copied and pasted from the leaf spring thread):

Regarding frame cross member welds - visually inspected all yesterday and photographed each weld to set a baseline for our records.  All good.  I'm suspecting that the broken welds reported could be caused by an inexperienced welder at the factory - an anomaly and not a design flaw.  I also suspect that Oliver engineers designed the frame to withstand "normal" usage (that may be difficult to define, however).  Like other owners, we routinely, yet carefully, travel over unpaved and unimproved roads with a full fresh (empty black/gray) tank without issue - I believe this practice is within the design limitations of the trailer.  We'll definitely keep inspecting the cross members after such trips, however...  Thoughts?

[Patriot]

1 hour ago, MAX Burner said:

(Copied and pasted from the leaf spring thread):

Regarding frame cross member welds - visually inspected all yesterday and photographed each weld to set a baseline for our records.  All good.  I'm suspecting that the broken welds reported could be caused by an inexperienced welder at the factory - an anomaly and not a design flaw.  I also suspect that Oliver engineers designed the frame to withstand "normal" usage (that may be difficult to define, however).  Like other owners, we routinely, yet carefully, travel over unpaved and unimproved roads with a full fresh (empty black/gray) tank without issue - I believe this practice is within the design limitations of the trailer.  We'll definitely keep inspecting the cross members after such trips, however...  Thoughts?

I agree Max all great points,

Comparing visually just a few early model weld photos to my welds on XPLOR there is a vast difference in the appearance of the skill level of the welder and his craft.
I really don’t see this being an issue with later model Oliver’s. I have not heard or read about any cracked welds on the newer Olivers. Oliver TT clearly recognized the need for higher quality welds early on and improved on this with a much better weld.

Good on Oliver!

All this said it is imperative that owners inspect and maintain ALL areas of their Oliver. Olivers are extremely well engineered and well built in my owner experience. 

Oliver has continued and will continue to make improvements through the years. If I ever end up with a cracked weld I will simply have it fixed. I know I still own the best TT made in the USA. 🇺🇸

With so few trailers impacted, I am not sure how much more we can beat this dead horse. 😄

Happy Camping!!
 

 

Edited April 12 by Patriot

[John Welte]

13 hours ago, rideandfly said:

John,

Hate to be a Monday morning Quarterback, but did you add Coriolis Force?

And did Oliver account for an opposite force when we take our trailers to the southern hemisphere.  A lot of us want to explore Australia with our trailers and we need to know how Oliver designed the frame.  😂🤣

John

[rideandfly]

1 hour ago, Patriot said:

All this said it is imperative that owners inspect and maintain ALL areas of their Oliver. Olivers are extremely well engineered and well built in my owner experience.

 

3 hours ago, MAX Burner said:

(Copied and pasted from the leaf spring thread):

Regarding frame cross member welds - visually inspected all yesterday and photographed each weld to set a baseline for our records.

 

Yep, Pre-Flight aircraft inspections have saved my bacon more than once. Ollie cross member inspections can be made easy with a telescoping inspection mirror during the walk around before towing.

Still need to inspect all welds a few times a year using a creeper, too.

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=telescoping+inspection+mirror&crid=3GPS6IC729535&sprefix=telescoping+inspection+mirror%2Caps%2C133&ref=nb_sb_noss_1

[MAX Burner]

5 hours ago, rideandfly said:

Yep, Pre-Flight aircraft inspections have saved my bacon more than once.

Same here, brother!

7 hours ago, Patriot said:

All this said it is imperative that owners inspect and maintain ALL areas of their Oliver. Olivers are extremely well engineered and well built in my owner experience. 

Couldn't agree more, David!

We should all invest in something like one of these unless already owned...

...just one last blow to the horse!  HA!

[taylor.coyote]

Bent / sagging crossbeams

I have a related issue with some frame crossbeams.  I have four and maybe more crossbeams that are sagging (have a belly in the middle). When putting a straight piece of bar stock across the bottom of the trailer's crossbeams, you can see about one inch +/- bow / belly in these crossbeams. Interesting that the beams that are bent are located in the front 1/3 of the trailer ( behind the bathroom and in front of the axles) and the back 1/3  (behind the axles and in front of for the cabinet between the twin beds.  The bent crossbars have no apparent other damage other than the belly. I am a big guy, regardless these beams should not be bent.  Does anyone  have knowledge  or experience with bent crossbeams? 

[jd1923]

On 4/29/2024 at 6:38 PM, taylor.coyote said:

Bent / sagging crossbeams

I have a related issue with some frame crossbeams.  I have four and maybe more crossbeams that are sagging (have a belly in the middle)...

This piqued my interest, and I would like to see a picture of yours too. I got under our Oliver today after reading this. I see 4 crossbeams front of the suspension. 3 of 4 of ours have NO sag. The have an intentional arc but are fully supporting the hull left to right. The front one has a 3/8" gap at the center. The true front of the hull is held up by the heavy frame ahead of these 4 beams, so the first one looks to have no weight on it and merely holds left to right. I don't see much wrong with this, but yours may be worse if all four beams have sagged. It's certainly not the weight of cargo or a person on the inner shell.

Edited May 1 by jd1923
Added picture

[MAX Burner]

1 hour ago, jd1923 said:

The front one has a 3/8" gap at the center. The true front of the hull is held up by the heavy frame ahead of these 4 beams, so the first one looks to have no weight on it and merely holds left to right. I don't see much wrong with this,

Exactly right, John.  Our's front cross beam has the same gap with what looks like a rubber gasket between the aluminum and the fiberglass hull...FYI

[ScubaRx]

On 4/12/2024 at 7:53 AM, MAX Burner said:

(Copied and pasted from the leaf spring thread):

…I also suspect that Oliver engineers designed the frame to withstand "normal" usage (that may be difficult to define, however). Thoughts?

Jim Oliver told me personally that the frame was designed to handle up to 3X the GVWR. He quoted the number at 21K pounds.

I do know that the number of rear cross members is now twice those of the three 22 footers that were built in 2010 (that was what the Elite II’s were called back then.)

Edited May 4 by ScubaRx

[MAX Burner]

11 hours ago, ScubaRx said:

He quoted the number at 21K pounds.

"He" in the quote above, being Jim Oliver, is a great "new" frame of reference for the ruggedness factor (if there's such a thing) of our trailers.  Thanks for mentioning that, Steve.

[CRM]

11 hours ago, ScubaRx said:

I do know that the number of rear cross members is now twice those of the three 22 footers that were built in 2010 (that was what the Elite II’s were called back then.)

My 2010 has 6 cross members from the rear axle back. Do later models really have 12 of them?

[Rivernerd]

1 hour ago, CRM said:

My 2010 has 6 cross members from the rear axle back. Do later models really have 12 of them?

Not my 2022, Hull # 1291.

[CRM]

16 minutes ago, Rivernerd said:

Not my 2022, Hull # 1291.

I think I see where the difference in cross members count may be. I have the original brochure for the E2's that came out before the shutdown and they show the rear bumper almost flush with the back of the hull. Maybe 2 or 3 extra cross members added when they extended the bumper and storage area out further? The first one or two E2's that that Oliver's kept must have been built as shown in the brochure and then the design was changed for the one I currently own since my dimensions match the current dimensions.

[ScubaRx]

2 hours ago, CRM said:

My 2010 has 6 cross members from the rear axle back. Do later models really have 12 of them?

No, but originally there were only four. Like mine, the belly behind the axles started to sag and more were added. Yours was likely repaired prior to your acquisition.

 

1 hour ago, CRM said:

I think I see where the difference in cross members count may be. I have the original brochure for the E2's that came out before the shutdown and they show the rear bumper almost flush with the back of the hull. Maybe 2 or 3 extra cross members added when they extended the bumper and storage area out further? The first one or two E2's that that Oliver's kept must have been built as shown in the brochure and then the design was changed for the one I currently own since my dimensions match the current dimensions.

You are correct that the frame's were shorter and the bumpers were almost flush with the back of the hull when the first two 22 footers were built in 2008-2009. They were likely done this way because that's the way the 17 foot Elite rear storage area had been designed.

In 2014, after the hiatus, the decision was made to lengthen the frame on both the models. This was done for looks and since there was no other fiberglass travel trailer this big it made for good marketing. The length of a travel trailer is defined by the distance from the tip of the hitch to the back of the bumper, so the 17 foot Elite became 18.5 feet long and the 22 footer became 23.5 feet long and was finally given an official name, becoming the Elite II.

Even though the rear of the frame was lengthened by 1.5 feet the number of cross members remained the same as before. This 22 foot trailer were built during late 2008 and early 2009 although it was not sold right away. Another unit  was built for Jim Oliver and it was completed. He named it "The beast". A third unit was planned but the company decided to shutter the trailer line and it was never started. Here are a few construction pictures taken during that time period. Some were taken by myself and some by Robert Partee, the sales manager at the time.

Here you can plainly see the frame rails extending far beyond the rear of the body and the cross members welded below the belly.

 

Edited May 4 by ScubaRx

[CRM]

16 minutes ago, ScubaRx said:

In 2014, after the hiatus, the decision was made to lengthen the frame on both the models. This was done for looks and since there was no other fiberglass travel trailer this big it made for good marketing. The length of a travel trailer is defined by the distance from the tip of the hitch to the back of the bumper, so the 17 foot Elite became 18.5 feet long and the 22 footer became 23.5 feet long and was finally given an official name, becoming the Elite II.

 

Thanks for the info! One thing that confuses me is that mine was built in 08-09, and titled as a 2010, but is also the 23.5 extended version.  Were there two 22' models built before mine, and if Jim Oliver kept one, what happened to the other?

[topgun2]

Boy!  These units were even pretty Way back then.

Good design never goes out of style!

Bill

[SeaDawg]

@CRM, the original demo Oliver had red and black graphics, shown at Q in early 2009.

Yours may be the one sold in August of 2009 to a couple in California and Arizona, as it has blue and grey graphics? Not sure. The last one made before the hiatus in December, 2009,  went to Jim Oliver, if i remember correctly. . However, I can't really trust 15 yeat old memories. 

I only remember three, and maybe jims was the demo, so two???. But, maybe Scubarx knows of others. He spent a lot more time at the factory than I did on those days (and still does.)

You definitely own a piece of Oliver history. Lucky find!

Edited May 4 by SeaDawg

[CRM]

35 minutes ago, SeaDawg said:

@CRM, the original demo Oliver had red and black graphics, shown at Q in early 2009.

Yours may be the one sold in August of 2009 to a couple in California and Arizona, as it has blue and grey graphics? Not sure. The last one made before the hiatus in December, 2009,  went to Jim Oliver, if i remember correctly. . However, I can't really trust 15 yeat old memories. 

 

Yes, that is ours. I have the original receipt and it was sold in August 2009. It had blue/grey graphics when we bought it but I removed them since they were deteriorating so badly. Replaced the Front and side "Oliver" decals with original colors, though.

 

[CRM]

52 minutes ago, SeaDawg said:

@CRM, the original demo Oliver had red and black graphics, shown at Q in early 2009.

 

You have a very good memory! Here it is on the original brochure. This one is definitely a 22' since the bumper is close to the hull.

[jd1923]

Yours is a pretty classic and LOVE @Scuba Steve’s pics!

Sitting here camped at Beaver Dam Wash National Conservation Area (say that ten times fast), my chair pointed in the right direction and I count 4 crossmembers up front, 7 rear with one a double (bad idea) and who knows under the wheels. Had two drinks and not getting on my knees!!!