Made in USA leaf springs

[ScubaRx]

6 hours ago, rideandfly said:

John,

Our 2015 LE2 #75 has 5200 pound axles and springs. Understand at the time Oliver ran out of 3500 pound axles, so Legacy Elite axles/springs were installed on our Ollie. 99% highway use with no spring issues.

Here's the springs on our Ollie:

When we were in the early build stage of our Hull #050 back in late 2013, I asked Jim Oliver what he suggested for axles for our new Elite II. We were coming from a 2008 Elite that had a 5200 pound axle with five leaf spring packs under it. He quickly said that he would want the same ones we had on our first trailer. So that's what we went with. The plan at that time was to use 2 x 3500 pound axles with four leaf spring packs on the regular production Elite II's. With the exception of a few trailers built in 2015 with the 5200 pound setup for the reason stated previously by @rideandfly this has been the standard on all production units since the first 2014 models rolled off the line and continued that way through model year 2021.

The 2022 to current Elite II models saw a change in their axles. The Elite's axle remained the same as they had always been but, In an effort to streamline production and simplify their inventory, the decision was made to use the same size axles on both the Elite and Elite II trailers. All trailers delivered since 2022 have been supplied with two 5200 pound axles with the Dexter Nev-R- Lube hubs on them. However, they stuck with the 3500 pound 4-Leaf spring packs that have always accompanied the 3500 pound axles rather than the 5-Leaf spring packs that are standard on the 5200 pound axles. Their reasoning is that the stiffer springs would cause a rougher ride and could lead to drawers coming open or cabinet doors opening up while under tow. This why the GVWR remains at 7000 pounds. In addition, Oliver has also changed from 16" wheels with LT tires to 15" wheels with ST tires.

There has been some recent owner interest in obtaining the Dexter Nev-R- Lube hubs. This requires a complete axle swap as they are not compatible with the axles all the older trailers (pre-2022) are equipped with. If you are contemplating ditching the OEM 3500 pound axles for the new setups with the higher rated axles, be aware of this spring issue. I can personally attest to knowing of at least 10 spring failures on the 4-Leaf spring packs on both the older trailers and a few that have recently been delivered over the past year or so. All of these springs have broken in exactly the same place. Also, I have never heard of a single failure in any of the trailers that are equipped with the 5200 pound axle with the 5-Leaf spring pack. This includes all the Elites ever built and, to my knowledge, none of the Elites II’s that were originally built with the 5200 pound axles and the 5-Leaf spring packs.

My predication is that the 4-Leaf spring packs will continue to fail no matter which axle they are installed with. My advice is if you are changing out your four leaf springs for any reason, consider a stiffer spring that the originals and to purchase and carry with you at least one extra spring pack. If you’re going to Alaska carry two sets. One owner was up around the Arctic Circle when he discovered his were broken. Not the ideal locale for a FUBAR.

 

 

 

[CRM]

4 hours ago, ScubaRx said:

My predication is that the 4-Leaf spring packs will continue to fail no matter which axle they are installed with. My advice is if you are changing out your four leaf springs for any reason, consider a stiffer spring that the originals and to purchase and carry with you at least one extra spring pack.

 

Our LE2 was built with 5200lb axles but with just the 4-leaf springs. Plan on changing them out and using the same USA made springs that @Mountainman198 is using but just a little worried about the possibility of a rougher ride putting addition stress on the trailer and components. Have you experienced any such issues running the 5-leaf springs?

[Mountainman198]

I am sure there are other US Spring manufacturers that use US made 5160 spring steel.  I encourage people to do their own research and let the group know if you find other sources.  In my week-long search I found only two manufacturers that returned my inquiries.  I knew previously of ALCAN and their offroad spring Creds and they had the springs in stock so I went with them. St. Louis Spring also replied to my inquiry but required that I purchase a new replacement spring of the specs I wanted and send it to them to replicate.  I have included their response below in case there are owners local to St. Louis and for whom this requirement would not be such a obstacle.  Note in their response they also recommend adding a fifth leaf.

Best of luck in your own sourcing.  Please post any concrete updates on places which meet the "made in USA with USA 51560 steel" criteria.  It is always good to have multiiple sources from which to choose.  Also, perhaps Oliver may wish to follow this path for suspension on future trailers.  Our legwork may help facilitate this as a future upgrade, placing Oliver even farther up the quality metric amongst the pool of RV mediocrity. 

As far as running a set of 8,000 springs vs. 7,000 I am prepared to run even lower tire pressures to smooth out the ride in order to avoid the roadside PITA of a broken spring, instead having a potential trade-off of  quicker tire wear and lower towing mpg.  

I was lucky that my issue was noticed at a Love's with a newly built, adjacent RV Stop RV park which featured large, newly poured cement pads, new luxury showers, power and quiet sleep.  Also, a local, Good-Ole Boy RV shop/contractor who had the pair of springs to get me home and did not bend me over the cash register.  Your mileage may vary should this happen to you.  I am doing everything I can to make sure I do not end up in this predicament again.  At minimum, I recommend buying a spare spring (or two) to carry with you on every trip.  Ironically, ScubaRX and I had this exact discussion not more than two weeks earlier (after meeting another E2 owner in Quartzsite who had broken a spring) and I was planning to order a pair of springs to carry as spares once I got home...UGH.

Best wishes, Lance

Spring Team <springteam@saintlouisspring.com>	Fri, Mar 1, 9:06 AM (6 days ago)
to me

 

We can definitely makes this for you and would be made here with American steel, however we would need a sample to duplicate and a lot of times on these travel trailers we make them heavier by adding a leaf to each.

 

Thanks

 

The Spring Team

 

 

St. Louis Spring Company

Tel: 314-533-2132

Email: springteam@saintlouisspring.com

Web: https://saintlouisspring.com

[Rivernerd]

On 3/7/2024 at 1:13 AM, ScubaRx said:

All trailers delivered since 2022 have been supplied with two 5200 pound axles with the Dexter Nev-R- Lube hubs on them. However, they stuck with the 3500 pound 4-Leaf spring packs that have always accompanied the 3500 pound axles rather than the 5-Leaf spring packs that are standard on the 5200 pound axles. Their reasoning is that the stiffer springs would cause a rougher ride and could lead to drawers coming open or cabinet doors opening up while under tow.

It seems that the only suspension component on 2022+ Elite IIs that limits the GVWR to 7K lbs. is the 4-leaf springs.  The bearings on each 5200 lb. axle should be rated to 5200 lbs., like the axle is.

It stands to reason that replacing all four of those 4-leaf springs with heavier duty "Made in America" 5-leaf springs could enable an 8000 lb. GVWR (2Kx4=8K) , at least in practical application.  Do any of you engineer types out there disagree with this analysis?

That said, I don't plan to increase the load on our Hull #1291 even if we upgrade to the 5-leaf springs, because we tow with a 2019 Tundra.  The low Tundra payload capacity is our real limitation, not the trailer GVWR.

But, I like to overbuild, so a beefier suspension than is absolutely necessary appeals to me.

Edited March 14 by Rivernerd

[mountainoliver]

Rivernerd I only have a couple of suggestions about heavier springs besides the obvious considerations. One potential issue or set of issues have to do with frame integrity. The Oliver frame is extremely strong and in all likelihood would never be an issue but overloading is overloading. Rest assured that there is not another mainstream trailer in the USA that has a frame that even comes close to the strength of the Oliver frame design. The overland trailers with heavy galvanized structural steel frames are in another category altogether. The other issue with loading the trailer heavier than what it was originally certified to will definitely cause insurance issues and liability issues and legal issues in the event of an accident. I personally am leaning heavily towards replacing my springs with heavier ones just to have a larger factor of safety and less worry about spring failure. I carry two extra springs in my truck just in case but I don’t at all look forward to replacing them on the road. At least I have all of the parts even if for some reason I can’t do the work myself. 

[Rivernerd]

19 minutes ago, mountainoliver said:

I personally am leaning heavily towards replacing my springs with heavier ones just to have a larger factor of safety and less worry about spring failure.

Those are the same reasons I plan to replace my springs, now that I know there have been a number of failures with the cheap Chinese 4-leaf springs.  I had a leaf spring fail on my raft trailer many years ago in the "middle of nowhere," and it caused a logistical nightmare.

Even after spring upgrade, the amount we load onto the trailer will not change.  But I will have greater peace of mind when towing Hull #1291 far from home!

[jd1923]

This discussion will get me under the Oliver again this weekend to inspect the leaf springs! It appears the failure location is right where the second leaf contacts the main leaf. Everything looked fine 6 months ago when I replaced the trailer wheel bearings, as you can see in the picture. I would assume there would be a slight bend at this location prior to failure.

Why are we looking for new sources, when @Mountainman198 found this great USA made company? The springs look great! Will these be a good upgrade or too stiff? That's the only question I see. If these are truly rated at 8000 LBS GTWR that may be OK or perhaps a bit too stiff. Our Oliver sits about 6200 LBS when traveling. Could they remove one leaf to bring this down to a 7000 rating?

[Mountainman198]

18 minutes ago, jd1923 said:If these are truly rated at 8000 LBS GTWR that may be OK or perhaps a bit too stiff. Our Oliver sits about 6200 LBS when traveling. Could they remove one leaf to bring this down to a 7000 rating?

Best to call them and ask. Their specialty is custom leaf springs, based upon owner provided specs. You will need to provide them with msmts, loaded weight, likely gvwr and perhaps more details. I would be surprised if they would be unwilling to make something custom to meet your specs

[Geronimo John]

1 hour ago, mountainoliver said:

I personally am leaning heavily towards replacing my springs with heavier ones just to have a larger factor of safety and less worry about spring failure.

 Ditto for our hull.

GJ

[Geronimo John]

On 3/5/2024 at 11:10 PM, ScubaRx said:

I've personally seen 10 trailers with one or more broken.

This is starting to sound like another Dexter defect that they will never fess up to..... just like the EZ-Flex Center Bolt backing out was.  It warrants at least a OTT Safety Bulletin and possibly a NTSB complaint.

[jd1923]

18 hours ago, rideandfly said:

Our 2015 LE2 #75 has 5200 pound axles and springs. Understand at the time Oliver ran out of 3500 pound axles, so Legacy Elite axles/springs were installed on our Ollie. 99% highway use with no spring issues.

Given 5200 LB axles have been used (x2 = 10,400 LBS), then if these custom springs rated for 8000 GTWR might be exactly what the doctor ordered!

Just reviewed your Word doc @Mountainman198. Nice work and as soon as it's time to spend on the Oliver AGAIN, I have these now on my wishlist.

[topgun2]

16 minutes ago, jd1923 said:

I have these now on my wishlist.

Just how long is that wish list?🤑

[Geronimo John]

1 hour ago, topgun2 said:

Just how long is that wish list?🤑

LOL.  Mine was so long, I had to make two lists: 

• 2024 Do List
• Future Years Do List

GJ

[jd1923]

1 minute ago, Geronimo John said:

LOL.  Mine was so long, I had to make two lists: 

• 2024 Do List
• Future Years Do List

GJ

In my business, we call that Rolling Wave Planning!

[John Dorrer]

10 hours ago, Mountainman198 said:

I am sure there are other US Spring manufacturers that use US made 5160 spring steel.  I encourage people to do their own research and let the group know if you find other sources.  In my week-long search I found only two manufacturers that returned my inquiries.  I knew previously of ALCAN and their offroad spring Creds and they had the springs in stock so I went with them. St. Louis Spring also replied to my inquiry but required that I purchase a new replacement spring of the specs I wanted and send it to them to replicate.  I have included their response below in case there are owners local to St. Louis and for whom this requirement would not be such a obstacle.  Note in their response they also recommend adding a fifth leaf.

Best of luck in your own sourcing.  Please post any concrete updates on places which meet the "made in USA with USA 51560 steel" criteria.  It is always good to have multiiple sources from which to choose.  Also, perhaps Oliver may wish to follow this path for suspension on future trailers.  Our legwork may help facilitate this as a future upgrade, placing Oliver even farther up the quality metric amongst the pool of RV mediocrity. 

As far as running a set of 8,000 springs vs. 7,000 I am prepared to run even lower tire pressures to smooth out the ride in order to avoid the roadside PITA of a broken spring, instead having a potential trade-off of  quicker tire wear and lower towing mpg.  

I was lucky that my issue was noticed at a Love's with a newly built, adjacent RV Stop RV park which featured large, newly poured cement pads, new luxury showers, power and quiet sleep.  Also, a local, Good-Ole Boy RV shop/contractor who had the pair of springs to get me home and did not bend me over the cash register.  Your mileage may vary should this happen to you.  I am doing everything I can to make sure I do not end up in this predicament again.  At minimum, I recommend buying a spare spring (or two) to carry with you on every trip.  Ironically, ScubaRX and I had this exact discussion not more than two weeks earlier (after meeting another E2 owner in Quartzsite who had broken a spring) and I was planning to order a pair of springs to carry as spares once I got home...UGH.

Best wishes, Lance

Spring Team <springteam@saintlouisspring.com>	Fri, Mar 1, 9:06 AM (6 days ago)
to me

 

We can definitely makes this for you and would be made here with American steel, however we would need a sample to duplicate and a lot of times on these travel trailers we make them heavier by adding a leaf to each.

 

Thanks

 

The Spring Team

 

 

St. Louis Spring Company

Tel: 314-533-2132

Email: springteam@saintlouisspring.com

Web: https://saintlouisspring.com

Thanks for sharing this. I wonder if a USA made 4-leaf spring would solve the issue. Less stiff than the 5-leaf and USA made, or whether USA made 5-leaf is the safest way to go. If the USA 4-leaf is possibly better than the Chinese 5-leaf. Looking forward to hearing more when you get the USA springs installed.

 

[jd1923]

On 3/5/2024 at 4:54 PM, Mountainman198 said:

The curb side rear spring was in the process of failing as well. Starting to flatten with the rearward end starting to invert.

Checked under ours today. I inspected all 4 leaf springs and was happy to see all four, in 8 locations front and back, were as straight as can be. Straight meaning an equal symmetrical arc front to back, no sag of the main leaf on the ends, as the example clearly seen on the right side of this picture. It appears that our Oliver sits a good 1-2" taller without the leaf bends shown here.

This doesn't mean they cannot fail in the future, but the leaf will likely bend some at this location prior to failure. Looking at the cross-section of the steel in the leaf that had failed, it does not look to have been hardened properly. Our Oliver has lived life in the SW and our leaf springs only have very light surface rust. Given this inspection, I will drop replacement leaf springs to the bottom of my to-do list. Though I'm still very interested in this supplier, and the installation and road test of @Mountainman198 and others here.

[hobo]

On 3/7/2024 at 12:35 PM, jd1923 said:

This discussion will get me under the Oliver again this weekend to inspect the leaf springs! It appears the failure location is right where the second leaf contacts the main leaf. Everything looked fine 6 months ago when I replaced the trailer wheel bearings, as you can see in the picture. I would assume there would be a slight bend at this location prior to failure.

Why are we looking for new sources, when @Mountainman198 found this great USA made company? The springs look great! Will these be a good upgrade or too stiff? That's the only question I see. If these are truly rated at 8000 LBS GTWR that may be OK or perhaps a bit too stiff. Our Oliver sits about 6200 LBS when traveling. Could they remove one leaf to bring this down to a 7000 rating?

OK, a little more information provided by "Mike" at ALCAN relative to a four spring setup vs the five spring setup.

I specifically asked Mike about simply swapping out our cheap, Chinese produced Dexter 4 spring set with a quality 4 spring set that they produce.  He highly recommended going with the five spring set. In his opinion, the 3500 springs used by Dexter are inadequate for our trailers.  That's good enough for me.

I had asked about their 4 spring set as by yesterday (Friday) morning (the morning after Mountainman198) had posted the vendor source note, they had already sold out of the last 3 remaining stock of 5 spring sets to other Oliver owners.

I was the first call Friday morning and he advised they were producing more next week (11-15 March) but wouldn't ship until NLT than Friday the 15th.  Well we're departing on the 22nd of March for a six week trip and that schedule was almost a guarantee that at best, I might receive the shipped springs in time  for the trip but wouldn't have time to install them. I of course would order them and have them with me just in case. So I locked in my order at 0700 yesterday morning.

When I talked to Mike later yesterday he said based on my somewhat immediate need, he discussed with his production folks and they said they could have a set produced for me by next Wednesday (vice Friday) and they would be shipped that day.  That's GREAT customer service.

He also mentioned to me to me that in the time between having talked to him in the morning (0700), and when I called back at around 2PM, he had sold five more sets to Oliver trailer owners.  He said "You Oliver trailer owners are a really tight knit group".  He actually was so impressed, he went on line and investigated Oliver Travel Trailers.

I have my RV mechanic on standby to replace my springs once they are received.  He's having me bring in my trailer once I get the "shipped" notice so that it's already there in his shop the moment the springs arrive.  To that end, my new springs should be installed before our departure on Friday, 22 March.

I'll report back my findings once installed.

Thanks again to Mountainman198 for all his efforts.

Paul & Donna (2 HOBOS) hull 414 (last trailer produced in 2018)

 

Edited March 9 by hobo

[MAX Burner]

Thanks, @hobo - we just placed our order for five 5-spring pack leaf springs with Mike at ALCAN Springs in Grand Junction (we'll carry a spare).

[Nan]

Hey Max, do you happen to have Mike's phone number?  Thanks, Nan

[hobo]

32 minutes ago, Nan said:

Hey Max, do you happen to have Mike's phone number?  Thanks, Nan

CONTACT US

Phone: 970-241-2655

Email: sales@alcanspring.com

[dewdev]

@hobo

Did Mike at ALCAN give you more information on why he thught the 4 spring set was "inadequate for our trailers" ?

Thanks

Edited March 9 by dewdev

[rideandfly]

On 3/7/2024 at 10:52 AM, Rivernerd said:

But, I like to overbuild, so a beefier suspension than is absolutely necessary appeals to me.

 

On 3/7/2024 at 8:52 AM, Mountainman198 said:

As far as running a set of 8,000 springs vs. 7,000 I am prepared to run even lower tire pressures to smooth out the ride in order to avoid the roadside PITA of a broken spring, instead having a potential trade-off of  quicker tire wear and lower towing mpg.  

 

Always liked the idea of having Legacy Elite 5200 pound capacity axles and 5 leaf spring packs on our 2015 LE2 because Oliver ran out of 3500 pound axles during manufacture installing larger Legacy Elite axles & spring packs like ScubaRX mentioned earlier. The 5200 pound axles have larger bearings and brakes, too. I'm currently running 45PSI in the 225/75R16 tires on our Ollie with the idea of smoothing out the ride with higher capacity springs, like Mountainman198 mentioned, too.

Someone on this forum posted this air pressure chart in another thread. This chart is not very large, sorry about that.

 

 

Edited March 9 by rideandfly

[hobo]

58 minutes ago, dewdev said:

@hobo

Did Mike at ALCAN give you more information on why he thught the 4 spring set was "inadequate for our trailers" ?

Thanks

He said they were just not appropriate for the weight of the Oliver trailer.  Basically the 5 spring version should be the standard for our trailers, not the 4 spring 3500 lbs springs.

[ScubaRx]

On 3/7/2024 at 7:02 AM, CRM said:

Our LE2 was built with 5200lb axles but with just the 4-leaf springs. Plan on changing them out and using the same USA made springs that @Mountainman198 is using but just a little worried about the possibility of a rougher ride putting addition stress on the trailer and components. Have you experienced any such issues running the 5-leaf springs?

Never had any interior problems. Our trailer, with water and ready to camp, has always weighed north of 7000 pounds. And, for years we ran 80 psi in all our tires.

[Rivernerd]

1 hour ago, hobo said:

He said they were just not appropriate for the weight of the Oliver trailer.  Basically the 5 spring version should be the standard for our trailers, not the 4 spring 3500 lbs springs.

Interesting.  ScubaRx, perhaps this information should be passed on to Oliver, along with your prediction that "the 4-Leaf spring packs will continue to fail no matter which axle they are installed with."   Consistent with Oliver's goal to produce a premium product, they may wish to consider upgrading to 5-leaf spring packs going forward.