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Here are some bullet points about the new Oliver Rewards Program. Hopefully it will help explain some of the questions. The new Rewards Program replaces the old Field Visit Program. Instead of getting a check mailed to you if a prospect purchases after completing a field visit, you get paid on an Oliver Rewards Mastercard Debit Card. This is not a credit card. There is no line of credit like a credit card has. There isn't a credit pull or anything. It is just a branded re-loadable gift card that we load money onto when you complete activities. You can setup a PIN to get cash out of a ATM as well. You also will get paid for just showing your travel trailer, regardless if the prospect purchases or not. We know the hours it takes to clean your trailer, to spend time with the prospects, and Oliver wants to reward you for that, which we didn't previously do. If the prospect does purchase a new Oliver, you get even more Reward Dollars after the sale is finalized - the amount depends on your tier. In this new program, you will get this reward when their order is finalized rather than waiting for checks to be mailed after delivery. As of right now, we consider the order as finalized 90 days before the production start date. So you will get this a little quicker than before. And those that want to be ambitious to get to higher tiers, they can make more Reward Dollars for the individual activities that are completed. Also, look at the Tier Perks. Those are gifts (non-taxable) you get for being a member of each tier. These are just a way of us saying thanks for you taking part in the program. The $20 service fee is new to this program. It is really a deduction of the first Reward for the year. If you don’t complete any activities for the year, you will not have to pay this fee. It is called a Service Fee but it is not an out-of-pocket expense. We will be adding more activities that people can do in the future. You will be required to submit details of completed activities on the Oliver website. This helps us make sure we are rewarding everyone properly. Now that we have over 1300 Oliver owners, we need our checks and balances to reward everyone that deserves to get them. It is a lot to keep up with and a lot more work on our part. As far as the 1099 goes, we are required by the IRS to 1099 anyone that earns $600 or more. This is not new. We had to 1099 owners in our previous Field Visit Program when individuals made $600 or more in a year. If you don't want to be 1099'd, you can still complete activities and earn less than $600 and stop doing activities once you reach the threshold. We apologize that the Terms & Condition are so much, but as a company we had to do our due diligence to protect all parties involved. With this, we have made changes how we setup field visits. For all prospects that contact us to see an owner's trailer, we now require the prospect to sign a Hold Harmless agreement that protects the owner when conducting a field visit. We have this signed by the prospect before setting up the field visit. This did not exist under the old program. We know many of you have helped us by showing your trailer in the past and didn't do it for the money, but we wanted to build a great program to reward everyone for their time and efforts to grow our brand. We are very thankful for everyone that has helped us over the years! Obviously the launch of this program is new. We will monitor and revise it as we gather feedback and where opportunities exist to make it better. If anyone has questions, please don't hesitate to message me.

We will not be signing up. The $20 annual "debit" against rewards, and the indemnification language in the Terms and Conditions are more than sufficient to persuade us to "Just Say No." The Indemnification paragraph reads: "9. Indemnification You agree to defend, indemnify and hold Oliver, its subsidiaries, affiliates, partners, licensors, officers, directors, employees, and agents harmless for any loss, damages or costs, including reasonable attorneys' fees, resulting from any third-party claim, action, or demand resulting from your participation in the Rewards Program in violation of any law, rule, regulation or these Terms." This means that if someone gets hurt when you are showing your Oliver and includes Oliver as a defendant in an ensuing personal injury suit along with you, you get to pay not only your defense costs, but Oliver's defense costs, and to pay any resulting judgment not only against you, but against Oliver. No rewards program provides sufficient incentive for us to assume this kind of financial exposure. We left Hohenwald with high regard for Oliver's Sales and Service team. Reviewing the Terms and Conditions of the new rewards program has diminished, not enhanced, our view of Oliver Travel Trailers as a company.

I announced a couple weeks back that we would be selling our Oliver after having our baby. We also decided that we would take the Oliver for one last spin with our baby for the memories. We live in central Louisiana, and our goal was to get to Grayton Beach State Park and Topsail State Park in Florida. The total drive time getting there was about 6-7 hours plus the pit stops we needed to take. For our first night though, we stayed in Baton Rouge. We arrived during a tornado watch at 10pm due to weather delays and I set up in the pouring rain. Our baby had a hard time sleeping this night as well and my wife and I decided “NOPE!” We both wanted to cancel the trip. We decided during lunch the next day to push forward and really give it a try instead of cancelling. We are so glad and thankful that we pushed forward. It was one of our favorite and sweetest camping experiences of our life. Grayton state park and Topsail state park are incredible locations if you can get a spot. The surrounding area (30A) is also very nice and family friendly with great restaurants, cafes, and breweries. Our legacy elite II twin layout worked perfectly for us. Our baby slept in one of the twin beds with a rail guard protector I installed, and I slept on the twin bed table area conversion. We will probably look into getting a custom twin bed for this spot and have it set up permanently as we rarely used the table anyway. The one issue we did run into is that our baby hates riding in the carseat, which makes a 6-7 hour drive a bit difficult. We solved this by leaving very early in the morning for the drive there and for the drive home. How early? 4AM & 3AM respectively We loved the trip so much, we decided we are not going to sell our camper for now and hold onto this to continue making special memories.

We understand for some people it is not about the money. For some it is. Some would not even participate since we didn't pay them for their time. Yes it is more cumbersome than our previous program. But it is a lot to keep up with and manage properly. In your example above, you would have been paid on $30 for first field visit ($50 minus $20 service fee) - this also moves you to the Bronze Tier for completing first activity Get sale on First Field Visit - $200 for sale = $250 YTD earnings - moves you to Silver Tier 2nd Field Visit - $50 plus $200 for sale = $500 YTD earning - moves you to Gold tier 3rd Field Visit - $75 plus $300 for sale = $875 YTD earnings 4th Field Visit - $75 plus $300 for sale = $1250 YTD earnings 5th Field Visit - $75 plus $300 for sale = $1625 YTD earnings - moves you to Platinum Tier 6th Field Visit - $100 plus $400 for sale = $2125 YTD earnings Plus you would have gotten paid on the two field visits for showing your trailer depending on the tier you were in at those times. You would receive the Platinum Tier gifts after the end of the year. The following year you would earn all year in the Platinum Tier. If you did 6 field visits and 6 people purchased, you would earn $3000. In our old program you would have only earned $1500. The Oliver Rewards Mastercard Debit card is just a reloadable gift card that can be used anywhere that accepts Mastercard or you can withdraw cash out ATMs. As far as the store goes, yes we have ordered some of the products for it already. Hope you are doing well! Hopefully I will see you again at the Maine Rally!

Take a look at this old thread and comment afterwards. https://olivertraveltrailers.com/forums/topic/3145-owner-personal-liability-if-prospective-buyer-injures-himself/ This new program sure looks like an official business arrangement, with “sales employees” who get financially reimbursed for advertising work that benefits the company….. I did not read the fine details, does Oliver TT say anything about this issue? FYI, while I stopped officially showing “Mouse” due to liability concerns. I still do frequent walk around tours. The last was in October ‘22 to a milling and excited crowd of about 25 retired women who meet at campgrounds to do stuff together like biking or golfing. Three of them physically blocked the road as I was trying to exit in the morning. That was a hoot, I thought I might get kissed at one point. Didn’t happen, darn it. John Davies Spokane WA

There’s nothing like getting paid for something that you’d likely do for nothing.

Yes. The bank that issues the card does have a network of ATMs that don't charge fees. But most ATMs would charge a fee. That information is provided when you receive the card in the mail. The cards expire after 3 years and the card issuer will send you a new card automatically (to replace your expired card) if you are part of the program still at that time.

It's not a credit card. It is a re-loadable debit card. There is not a credit check or anything required to get the card other than just completing an activity. When you get the card and activate it, you can setup a PIN to get cash out of ATMs also.

Like most here, I would be happy to show our trailer for free. I have been asked by Oliver if I would participate in showing to two potential buyers. In both cases I spoke with the buyers to set up a date and time which works for all involved. In both cases I arranged to be home and available at the appointed time and in both cases the buyers did not show nor did they have the courtesy to let me know their plans had changed. Money was not the motivation for my willingness to show our Oliver, rather a desire to pay forward the kindness of other Oliver owners who were took the time to answer our questions when we began to explore the purchase of our Oliver. I hope our experience has been the exception to the rule.

@Steph and Dud B If they have never contacted Oliver previously and you refer them to us, they are consider a Qualified Friend or Family Member. if you meet someone that has never seen an Oliver before, I would ask for their info and ask if they care if you share it with us. In the Submit Activity Form, you can add their information as required and any notes about the event. We will review the submitted activity to see if we have been in contact with the person previously. If they have contacted us previously, you would not qualify for the bonus but would still qualify as a field visit purchase reward.

Yep. That’s what I was referring to in my post above. For me, turning the pump on, running a little water, then turning it off resets it.

I have reviewed the Waiver of Liability, Assumption of Risk and Indemnification document Matt Duncan sent me. It is tightly and carefully crafted. Requiring those who view an Oliver trailer to execute this document should provide as much protection as can reasonably be provided to the Oliver owner showing a trailer from suit by an injured third party. Not incidentally, it also protects Oliver Travel Trailers. But, no such document can be 100% enforceable in every state, by every judge. But in my judgment, that is not enough to persuade me to sign up, given the Indemnification language quoted in my earlier post from the Terms and Conditions for the Reward Program. Were Oliver to get sued by someone injured during a trailer tour, that indemnification language allows Oliver to drag you into such a suit, even if you were not already a defendant, and make you pay Oliver's attorneys' fees and pay all of any judgment in favor of the plaintiff. You would likely get dragged in, and incur attorneys' fee expenses, before a decision was made about the enforceability of the Waiver of Liability, Assumption of Risk and Indemnification document. This could ultimately add up to hundreds of thousands of dollars (maybe millions in Texas or California). Although the odds of getting sued are very low, the result could still be financial ruin for the unlucky Oliver owner--but not for Oliver or its insurer. If, instead of shifting the burden of defense and indemnity to the Oliver trailer owner, Oliver's Terms and Conditions accepted responsibility to "fully defend and indemnify" the trailer owner in the event such a suit is commenced, I would be willing to sign up. Such a change would, in my judgment, also be fair. Should an Oliver trailer owner be required to take even a very small chance of financial ruin in order to participate in the Rewards Program? Or, since Oliver receives a significant financial benefit from Oliver owners showing their trailers, should not Oliver bear that risk? In my view, it is more than fair for Oliver to "watch the back" of the owner, not the other way around. When I was practicing law, I would not have advised any client to sign up for the Rewards Program under the existing Terms and Conditions, even with Oliver requiring execution of the Waiver of Liability, Assumption of Risk and Indemnification document. And, I plan to follow my own advice--we will not be signing up unless and until Oliver removes the present Indemnification paragraph and substitutes "we've got your back" language in its stead.

Yes this is it, at around 4:40 time in this video

I would like to see a copy of that Hold Harmless Agreement. While requiring the Hold Harmless is a positive step for Oliver to take, it still does not outweigh the effect of the Indemnification paragraph in the Terms and Conditions. If Oliver removes that Indemnification language, and in its place promises to "fully defend and indemnify" any Oliver owner who shows a trailer to a prospective purchaser, then the new Rewards Program would be much more attractive. As presently written, I believe it is a remarkably bad deal.

“There was a thread on FB wherefeedback was also lukewarm but it was quickly deleted as it seems any criticism of Oliver is not allowed there anymore”. TexasGuy, I agree with your observation. I have noticed the same with regard to the admin overreach on the Facebook Oliver page. Deleting posts or content because “admin” does not particularly like or agree with the content or a reply by members meh…not so much. Silencing, muzzling, or deleting posts is not a way to facilitate good discussion or honest feedback by owners. The FB Oliver admin would do well to really just lighten up just a bit. Hopefully they will do better and not remain heavy handed. I also think the administrators should be rotated out often. As for the rewards program and card, we have little interest at best. Patriot🇺🇸

He gets his own side as usually just me.

Not sure how many reservation systems it has in its database, but this is a Godsend for trying to book in Florida. We were able to successfully get 2 night reservations at multiple nice and hard to get campgrounds last week using this website. I love it. Im hesitant to share it with anyone, but everyone here deserves this site! https://wanderinglabs.com/

You are welcome John! It's new to everyone. We will get the kinks worked out and it will be a good program. Thanks for the feeedback!

We are going to review the Indemnification language hopefully tomorrow. We appreciate everyone's feedback!

Well based on the clarifications, I haven't read the information on the Oliver program site, that Matt has provided, I think the program is a definite improvement over the previous program. You will definitely realize a bigger monetary reward if you participate regularly, and a pre-paid debit is about the easiest way to transfer money to a recipient on a regular basis. It's the same as the HSA card I have to carry, only I can use this reward money on anything I want. If that's not good enough, step aside and leave it alone. Regarding the so called liabilities, we all invite strangers into our campers, cars, homes and lives in general and don't think twice about the liabilities, without a reward program. If you get to talking to a lawyer about the "possibilities" you will retreat to a padded room surrounded by barbed wire fences and no trespassing signs. I have no idea if I will participate once my Ollie arrives, it really isn't a driving interest for me. But having said that I have always been willing to share with folks the things I own if they are genuinely interested. I'm always willing to help educate people with the things I've learned and experienced and my door is always open to folks that show themselves as friendly and of a like mind. And no I don't hang around with lawyers, but have hung with a few "outlaws" throughout my life. 😆

Matt, Thank you for all of this information. We have a better understanding of the tier reward system with your example given. David

First, we usually travel with a full fresh tank. If you have to stop along the way or if for some reason you end up camping with no fresh water hookup it’s nice to have water on board. Traveling with a partial tank is less weight but increases the sloshing around. Second, a couple of times a year what you described happens to us. Overflow from the fresh tank while connected to city water. I was not aware of a valve that could be set to fill the tank from city water. I always thought it was a check valve not “checking” from time to time. My solution has been to leave the city water connected but turn on the water pump and run a little water. Turn the pump off and the problem is solved. This has been happening a couple of times a year for the last 4 or 5 years. I don’t think much of it since the solution is easy. It’s also been discussed on this forum before. Mike

I couldn’t agree more about the “muzzling” on that FB group! I know a few that have been kicked out for having legitimate problems and because it was “negative” they got kicked out! This is no way to moderate a FB group, people learn by both positive and negative comments. Nothing is always sunshine and roses! I’ve contemplated starting a new Oliver group where comments will not be muzzled and it will not have trigger happy fingers on the kick people out button if the persons comment/opinion doesn’t agree with theirs. I would name the group Oliver Travel Owners New Generation. Let me know if there is interest and I will open a new FB group.

I think you made a great decision! Both of our kids RV with their kids. We’ve camped with our son and family all over Colorado and it’s a great family bonding time and gets the kids out into nature. I hope this works out for you! Mike

At a campground a couple of hundred miles from home today. Hooked up to electric service and city water per usual. Checked my tank reading on the digital read out and they all read zero. After the first day camping of a 5 day camping trip, last evening I noticed that the overflow drain near the door of my Elite II was dripping steadily! What! Can't be. I'm using city water. Got up this morning and the drain was still running, making a mess of the area near the door. First thing I checked was to see if I accidentily attached my hose to the wrong intake. No. Everything was as it should be. Decided to call Oliver service to get their advice. I was told by the person that there is a valve that allows you to fill your fresh water tank from the city water input! News to me! Of couse to check this I would have to tear the bed apart to attempt to find the valve. Wasn't about to do that unless there was no other way around this at this time. I asked service why that valve would open, since we have been camping all of 2021/2022, many times, without this happening. She couldn't really explain that. The obvious reason is that the valve either failed or jiggled open due the many miles we have covered. So I had to find a work around. My wife came up with this idea first. Close the city water off. Use the fresh water! Smart wife. Only thing is the grey water tank is already 13% full, if you can trust the digital readout. I decided that I would drain fresh water out of the shower from time to time, so that the grey water tank wouldn't be full before the fresh water tank was empty. In other words, I wanted the fresh water tank empty when I pull out of this campground. What do you think? Smart/dumb idea? If dumb, what would you have done in this situation?? Charlie

If OTT changes the indemnification language as @Rivernerd suggested, and gives us some credit if a spontaneous interaction with someone directly results in a sale (could be verified by the buyer providing OTT with our name and hull number), I think this would be a good program and we'd be happy to participate.

Matt, I will study this program some more. Initially, I was skeptical of it, but you have gone the extra mile to explain it. I may change my mind and willingly participate. Rivernerd brought up a good point about liability which if reviewed and revised to everyone's satisfaction, we may get more owners willing to participate. Thanks for explaining the program to us. Have a great week. John

First, Matt @MDuncan, thank you for all the explanations and clarifications. Per the quote above, can you define "Qualified Friend"? If I get to know the couple camping next to me one weekend, show them my trailer, and they end up buying an Oliver based on that interaction, does that count as Qualified Friend? Almost every trip, another camper asks about our trailer. They aren't really friends, but they're interested and I often give them a tour.

I think he means using the pump and the outside shower as a way to get rid of fresh water without it draining into the gray tank.

Thanks again for the feedback. I will pass this along.

For now the activities are... Show Your Oliver to a Qualified Prospect When Requested by Oliver (You get paid for just showing it now) - $50 at Bronze & Silver tiers, $75 at Gold tier, and $100 at Platinum tier. Prospect Purchases after Qualified Field Visit Requested by Oliver - You get $200 for Bronze and Silver tiers, $300 for gold tier, and $400 for Platinum tier. Refer a Qualified Friend or Family Member that Purchases an Oliver - If the prospect has never contacted Oliver previously and you introduce them to the brand and they purchase a new Oliver, you will get the reward amount for the prospect purchasing a new Oliver (depending on the tier you are in. See bullet #2) and you will get a $250 bonus. This activity can be completed by Oliver trailer owners or non-owners. We plan to add more activities to earn more reward dollars in the future. You can find all the details here: https://olivertraveltrailers.com/rewards-program/

Ok I did some more test to confirm my beliefs based on comments from bhncb and jpk323. To be honest I’m kind of surprised with what I’ve found. Bhncb believes there is not a remote heat sensor in the AC unit. Jpk323 said he had a phone call with an independent RV repair person and he believes it’s the control box in the AC unit. If it turns out to be either the Dometic thermostat on the wall or the control box in the AC my solution does not fix the problem it just circumvents it. So today I ran the heat connected exactly like it was wired from Oliver and then warmed the Dometic thermostat with a blow drier. To my surprise the furnace shut shut off. So this would lead me to believe it is either a faulty thermostat or the control unit in the AC . Oliver said they will send me a new thermostat and to try it. If it fixes the problem then that’s that. if it doesn’t then it must be the control box in the AC. In any case if it turns out to be the control box I don’t think I will replace it unless the AC is also messed up because of it. The heat works great the way I have wired with no cycling or clicking in the AC. It’s never easy Bill

Thank you for the clarification.

::Raises hand:: And just for asking the outcome of a delivery problem. As for starting another group; there already is one. From what I understand, it was started by someone booted from the other group some time ago. https://www.facebook.com/groups/250246709208286

Well, we show our Ollie frequently to just about anybody who asks to see it - we're proud of our choice of a well-made TT. That being said, we're not interested in Oliver's new rewards program. I hope it works for them, but it looks like some slick salesman just "sold" them a "turn-key" marketing program. Disappointing. JMO Charlie.

Congratulations on the new addition to the family!

Jack we live in new england and We don’t like the heat either. As a matter of fact we are heading out to go skiing in a few minutes. We had planed to use the trailer while skiing so heat is a must. But on the flip side like I said we live in NE so when the temperature gets above 70 the ac is on high. The way I have it hooked up now you just flip the switch and you are back to the way it came wired from Oliver and your heat and AC works just like it did before the modification. If you or any one else wants to talk or needs better pictures just shoot me an email. Got to go skiing and have a scotch at the mountain Bill and Nancy

My first impression was $20/year for a credit card that I don't want! No thanks. Lots of legal mumbo jumbo that I didn't want to wade through. Not too excited about this program. Maybe if a lot of us opt out of the program, they will come up with one that's a bit more user friendly. Sort of like going on strike. The company needs willing owners to show their trailers. I have no issue with showing our trailer, but at first glance of this program, I don't feel inclined to do it in this fashion. If someone stops by at a campground I can answer questions or show them. I made sure that the two people that showed their trailers to us got credit when we picked up our trailer. Hopefully they were compensated. My basic feeling...not thrilled about it. John

Thanks bhncb. I am a firm believer that hassle has costs on the soul as well (time on the phone dealing with people who won't help, missed camping because your rig is tied up for a month, alcohol to you calm down instead of enjoyment😃). Bill's solution is right up my alley as well as improving the heat throughout the hull by adding return vents forward. I would spend more in diesel getting it to Idaho (closest "possible" repair to me) than this fix would cost. Now when I screw it up and burn up the trailer....... just kidding! Once there is enough feedback on the TRUMA quieter units, we may upgrade. We live part time in Texas and AC is a MUST.

Thetford 42061 Aqua-Magic Style II RV Toilet Low Profile - White with sprayer. It is also available without the sprayer but you’d have to check the Thetford website for the model number. It hasn’t been fastened down yet but it’s ready to go. I had to replace the broken flange and buff out the gelcoat because the Thetford base is slightly different/smaller and the Dometic wore a faint ring in it from being loose. Then I got sidetracked by other interests yadayada. i haven’t ever had a Thetford break. Routine maintenance is easy and the parts are readily available. The whole flush pedal business is a much sturdier design and the pedal won’t bottom out directly on the beveled edge of the raised fiberglass base. Sure as you read this though, someone will counter with a different opinion.

I am very happy that you have decided to give it a GO. You might want to consider finding some blogs/articles about camping with infants, to see what their experience has been. And if there is not a lot of information out there, then maybe you should share your experiences in blogs/articles with pictures, like you have done with us. Enjoy your time together, and keep the pics coming. Bryan

YES! Taking any kind of compensation puts you in a different legal class when torts are committed or occur. In non legal terms, an amateur (One not paid or compensated) is far less likely to be behind an 8-ball than a professional (One that got paid for the effort that went wrong). Just about anything of value can be considered compensation. Points, free stay, a turkey at Christmas...... Fankly I would not ever take anything from anybody involved with showing or selling OTTs. Just opens up a can of worms.

As the years have passed we show our trailer less and less. Not a problem, I’m sure it’s due to the age of our trailer and the big increase of Oliver owners in our geographical area. None of the appliances in our trailer are the same as what is being produced now so I don’t blame Oliver asking one of the newer owners to show instead of us. We still entertain the spontaneous campground questions while we are on the road but the official showing while at home has decreased significantly. Mike

Exactly

If you show your unit, and no sale, you still get a reward. Harvest Hosts and a piece of clothing at different levels seems ok, not sure of any downside there. Copper bronze and up...who cares? Want me to brag up my camper to somebody, be happy too. Want to give me a tee shirt for doing so? Thank you. Got rewards I think you call them and they sent you a check in 30 days if you want it. Just more passwords to remember? My guess this is an attempt to have a computer program administer the program, minimize staff time involvement, and generate customer involvement? I would guess is your unit might be picked on how it is equipped. Maybe by who got the referal at the sales office? I was told by someone at the sales office once some times that is how it it happens.."it's cyclical".

Meh! The written by Lawyers comment is spot on.

Cumbersome. Written by lawyers. Doesn't appear user friendly? They will charge for the use of the card? I showed 8 times one year, and sold 6. Other 2_bought used, so this program would have helped me. Haven't been asked to show since. Maybe me and my unit are getting too old? It does look like the Rewards Program is going to drive a Branded Store. Maybe that will be a positive.

GJ: Yes that's the original from my 2018. They may have decided to just assign a different model number to the 310 instead of referring to them as standard and low profile. Does your label say Dometic or Sealand? Yours may be what was available during the brand name changeover. I decided to go with the Thetford because: 1. I have a long history with them in the marine environment. 2. They are more serviceable from a replacement parts prospective. 3. The lower height will be more comfortable for us since I've decided to nolonger use my teak shower pan insert. 4. It's not a Dometic.

I’m back and I think I resolved my issue I had to wait until after the new year so I had some free time. After many phone calls and web searching I decided to try what I read on some other RV forums. This is not an uncommon problem and it drives not only me crazy but a lot of other people in the RV word. From what I can deduce the actual temperature sensor lives in the AC unit on the ceiling not in the thermostat mounted on the wall. This poses a problem because heat rises into the unit then it cools fast because it is against the roof and not on an interior wall. so I isolated the thermostat wires coming from the furnace and with the use of a DPDT switch I isolated the furnace from the AC altogether. Now the heat in the trailer is controlled from the battery operated thermostat independent from the AC. If I put the switch up I have heat controlled by the remote battery operated thermostat and no more cycling on and off. If I want AC I switch the switch down and now the AC works exactly the way it was wired originally using the Dometic thermostat installed by Oliver. So far it seems to have fixed the problem completely. Now that the cycling has stopped I plan to add a return air vent under the front Dinette along the floor. That should help with the return air flow by taking the return air directly from the floor up front away from the supply air. Sent from my iPad

And I most wholeheartedly agree with both of you. I get really tired of seeing folks hijack someone else's thread with a similar (but actually unrelated) problem of their own and then everyone gets confused and nobody gets any help. I've reread the entire thread and as BHNCB stated there's TWO different issues here and they're not interrelated. We could close this entire thread and everyone can start their own, but that's not fair to Bill and Nancy. I have renamed the thread: "Bill and Nancy's Furnace is cycling on and off every 2 minutes" and hence forth anything posted here should pertain only to the problems that Bill and Nancy are having. Additionally I am going to attempt to move non-pertinent posts to another thread. This will likely result in some apparent discontinuity in both threads. Please folks, in the future, start another thread that addresses your problem rather than tagging it into an existing one.