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I think for a variety of reasons, I will be dropping my PSI in the tires down from the 60 PSI (probably too much anyway) that I have been using down to somewhere between 45/50 PSI. I don't think the 14% stiffer springs will even be noticeable. I also have to keep in mind that Mike at ALCAN stated that (in his opinion), regardless of the spring quality issue, the 3500 lb springs used on the Olivers are too light. I'll have 5300 miles in the next 6 weeks to see if we notice any weird stuff going on in the trailer with the new springs.

We're departing in less than two weeks for a six week, 5300+ mile trip around the US which is what is driving us to make the spring change NOW. I noted when I was doing my spring maintenance that the leading spring on the street side seemed to be flattening out slightly which, I am told, is the first sign of imminent leaf failure. Knowing my time constraints, Mike (at ALCAN) is expediting the production of a spring set for me to have them shipped in time for me to have my RV tech install them prior to our departure. (Yes, I could install them myself but I have a thousand other things I'm doing to prepare for this trip). As an aside: I'll be talking to Mike today (Monday the 11th) about the center bolt on his springs and ensure that they are appropriately applied for the Oliver "underslung" setup. (I'll report back on this). Cost of springs (4 sets), 4 new U bolts, and shipping is somewhere in the $750 - $800 range. He initially suggested 4 new HD shackles and 8 new shackle bolts but when I informed him the existing shackles on the Olivers have 1/2" thick side plates (which are already HD) he was pleasantly surprised and waived off the need for new ones which is a $200(ish) savings. Expecting (hoping) no surprises and I'll keep everyone informed of results. 2 HOBOS (hull 414) 2018 LEII

Mike from ALCAN just called to let me know that all future orders of springs for Olivers will have the centering pins in the correct orientation for our trailers. He asked that I alert those who have ordered and who may order in the future to state the springs are for a Oliver E2. I had sent him an email asking about my understanding of how to flip the centering pins on my springs. He confirmed that flipping the pins is as simple as MountainOliver explains with a couple of C clamps, wrench, and hammer. Hopefully, I am the only Oliver owner to have to perform this step moving forward.

I can confirm that these measurements match the OEM brand/model spring specs for Hull #898 as well as match the published specs for the replacements spring brand/model provided by Oliver Service for my trailer. I encourage owners to confirm the specs of their OEM springs to know what they are replacing before proceeding with replacement of any part as we know certain differences exist between out trailers based in hull# and date produced. My OEM Spring make/model was conveniently stamped into the retainer band towards the end of each of my leaf springs (see pic). From this info I did a google search and found the specs. The springs installed at the factory on Hull #898 were made by EMCO and are model #PR-4B. The specs match what Steve provided above. Added to the specs Steve provided is the bushing spec provided by Oliver. The bushing is inserted into the spring eye and our wet bolts ride inside of them. The specs for these bushings (whether plastic or bronze) is 1.75”L, 11/16 O.D.(outside diameter) and 9/16”I.D.(inside diameter). It should be noted that the bronze bushing on the ALCAN springs is thicker walled than standard such that while it still has a 9/16”I.D., the spring eye into which it is pressed is larger than 11/16”. The 9/16”I.D. Of the bushing is important on these metrics as our wet bolts (which are 9/16” must fit inside the bushing eye) I hope this makes sense. I have attached a pic for comparison OEM spring in top, ALCAN on bottom.

Just sent off an email to Alcan Spring for information for a set of 4 springs for our LE2. I would like to be proactive in replacing the springs in my driveway rather than on the side of the highway. Plus I am a real big fan of supporting American manufacturing companies.

Mountainman198, Just to reinforce what you said above, I also spoke to Mike this morning on the subject of center bolt concern and he advised that his own production department had brought this to his attention after I sent him a picture of my axle and springs late last week. They in fact noted that our trailers had an underspring set up which would require a change in the bolt application. (Apparently, most TTs have oversprung setups.) They had already changed the product production protocols for our trailers before anyone on our side contacted them on the issue. Any YES, anyone ordering springs should specifically mention that they are being put on an Oliver TT. He also provided that "yes, they use a much thicker brass sleeve in their springs than the industry standard. This in no way affects the reuse of our existing bolts. It's just beefier, stronger, and longer lasting than what most use in their products. Relative to "other sources" for springs, he stated that there are no other manufactures of springs in the US that use the quality of metal that they use. (Take that comment for whatever it's worth). I will say this however, If you want the "best" of something, then it is by definition is a "sole source" acquisition (Oliver trailers are a good example of that. ) Finally, Mike commented several times about how impressed he is with the Oliver TT owner community. Thus far, I am very impressed with ALCAN's attention to detail and their customer service. My springs should be installed by the first of next week [18th(ish)] so I'll report back. Paul (2 HOBOS), hull 414 ON A SIDE NOTE: The reason I sent him a picture of our axle assembly last week was that he suggested that perhaps I wanted to consider upgrading the equalizer (point where front and rear springs attach just between the tires) to a MorRyde equalizer which considerably improves the ride. At that juncture I informed him that I had already been in contact with MorRyde and after much back-and-forth data swapping with them, MorRyde determined that their product was not applicable to our trailers since we have an undersprung leaf setup which doesn't allow enough clearance between the top of the axle and the trailer frame for their product use. Mike was confused by that until I sent him a picture of our assembly so he could see what I was talking about. This is the pic that their production folks looked at and immediately realized our trailers were an "underslung" design which caused them to change the bolt setup. Hope this was enlightening.

The wet bolts from my Oliver are 9/16" O.D. and from my measurement of the ALCAN springs I received I am re-using my existing wet bolts as the I.D of the bronze bushings in the ALCAN springs I received are 9/16". Let me know if this does not make sense. I chose NOT to buy new wet bolts from ALCAN.

Yes, my trailer is only 10 months old and my springs are still good, did have cracked shock bushings that Oliver replaced with 4 new shocks and bushings. Agree sounds like (so far) a very small amount of spring issues, just hope it doesn’t snow ball into like the Lippert frame flex/broken frame issue.

In looking at this and keeping all things in perspective, Oliver has now produced 1500 plus trailers and a smaller percentage of these being Elite 1 models. If my quick math is correct it tells me that the leaf spring failure rate of let’s say (10 trailers) as noted by @ScubaRx is approximately less than 1% or 0.67%. Of course no one wants this type of failure ever. I will wait and see what Oliver recommends or if they put out a safety bulletin. I feel sure Oliver will address this issue given the safety concerns. Following.

I don't know about the other owners who have experienced a broken spring(s) but I opened a ticket the day after it broke and remained in contact with them until I sourced new springs.

John, The springs ARE 25-1/4" on center to the spring eyes. The spring eyes are 11/16" ID. They ARE 4-leaf springs, 1.75" wide steel and they should have distinct bow to them about 3 inches deep as measured on a long bow, string to grip. They should NOT appear as "very straight leaf spring assemblies". This would indicate to me that they have flattened and are failing.

I had ours out upon a deep clean when we first purchased our older used hull. Sprayed them with a hose, fine mist setting thoroughly. Then I used compressed air mainly in the corners. Let them sit in the sun (think sunny day task) and later just snapped them in place. They are as clean as could be!

One thing I haven't seen discussed much is the quietness of the Oliver cabin relative to other RVs. With the double hull and double-glazed windows our Oliver has the quietest cabin of any RV we've owned. For anyone who camps in crowded state parks, you know how loud the neighbors can get, especially on alcohol-fueled weekends. We were very pleased to discover that retreating indoors to sleep, with the windows closed, cuts off most of the noise from sound systems, barking dogs, and partiers. We've also been able to take naps in busy rest areas without being bothered by passing trucks, etc. It works in reverse, too. One evening we were watching an action movie, pretty loud, and I went outside to make sure we weren't bothering the neighbors. Turns out, I couldn't hear the movie outside the trailer. Definitely a selling point Oliver salespeople could mention.

Thank you for doing the right thing! I encourage all owners that have had a spring failure to do the same. Even if it was reported years ago. With a dozen or so first hand reports. OTT would have the ammo they need to "dance" with Dexter. OWNERS: If you have had a spring failure, please follow Mountainman's lead. and report it. Even if it was yeas ago. If you know an owner who has had such a failure, please reach out to them and encourage them to also report the incident. If they can not do a first hand report, please consider submitting one on their behalf with full disclosure. Thanks GJ

This has been answered theoretically, but sure we all want to know what @Mountainman198 and @hobo experience. The 5200 LB axle makes no difference, except to be very happy they ran out of 3500 stock, and you got better bearings and brakes. 2000 LB rated 5-leaf springs vs. 1750 LB, like I wrote before is 14% stiffer, maybe a little more bang on occasion and less up and down.

That is correct. My list is just an informal collection of sites/names so that I know who's who while I wander the campground. I did this last year for myself as a first time attendee, and several others wanted copies. So I'm collecting them again this year, from here on this forum and the two Facebook groups. I know that not everyone wants to participate. This is in no way an official list of attendees, not is Oliver involved in me collecting this information.

Agree. Has anyone checked out the lead provided for St. Louis Spring? They seemed capable of replicating our springs with US Steel. Has anyone identified additional US Spring manufacturers who can build to our specs in US 5160 steel?

Please advise Mike at ALCAN that all of our Oliver trailers are underslung.

On the way home from the SW this year, I had the pleasure of experiencing a broken LR leaf spring while underway. It broke in the usual place (see pic). Fortunately the broken spring was noticed quickly and I found a safe place to overnight and perform the repair the next day. Unfortunately, I was not carrying a spare spring. After finding a pair of springs locally and installing them I made it home the next day. What I found when inspecting my broken spring was what appeared to be a defect in the steel (see pic). In no way do I blame Oliver for this failure as the trailer spring market is monopolized by Springs made of Chinese steel and Oliver, like all other manufacturers source from the same pool of components. In fact, after opening a service ticket, Mike was extremely helpful in getting me the specs and info I needed. I decided that once I got the trailer home I would replace all four springs with the best springs I could find. Preferably from a US company, made in the US and with US made 5160 spring steel. What I did not appreciate was that there did not appear to be any trailer parts sources which met this criteria. This was not proving to be a simple task. Everything I could find in the RV aftermarket was sourced from China. No exceptions. The only good news I found was that Chinese springs are cheap ($35-55ea). I remembered a Spring Company from my offroading days and gave them a call. They had a set of four springs which fit the measurements provided by Oliver Service and were made in the US with US 5160 spring steel. Cost is $150/ea spring but since I had already spent a fair amount of $ upgrading to stainless lugnuts and US made Timken bearings this did not prevent me from placing the order for a set of four springs and new ubolts. New springs should be here later this week. I will update with pics once I get the springs and also once I install and of course again after towing a few thousand miles.

Ralph: So that the 5200# and 3500# owners are on the same page, can you confirm that both axles use the SAME spec replacement spring? Thanks GJ

@ 1,500 trailers X 4 springs = 6,000 springs. I don't drive through snow/road chemicals and camp on the Texas coast 12-15 days each spring. I picked up an extra spring at the Mothership, service included inspection of the suspension, springs, and brakes. They found failed shock bushings and replaced under warranty. I take the trailer to a truck place every 3,000 miles to grease the zerks and will have them check the springs each visit. At some point I intend on going with Alcan and USA 5-leaf.

If you are attending this year's Owner's Rally and own a 2017 through 2024 Ford F-150 and have considered getting rear wheel well liners - I have a set of these that I'll give you! But, pm me for details first. Bill

Jason, I’ve attached a video only for audio purposes, it was recorded in pitch darkness near the lake at the rally last year. You’ll need to crank up the volume. Early morning and late evening walks in the park are very pleasant. Hope you can make it to the rally. IMG_5665.mov

We're right behind you again, so stop over any time!

I agree. But I just don't generally like sole source procurements. For most of us, there is plenty of time to run down some quotes from other USA Spring Manufacturers, who use the same steel, and have a great reputation as well. Also, we have not heard a peep out of OTT about this topic. Nor has Dexter been brought into the discussion either. So I caution rushing into such purchases too early. Now if you have a trip on the near horizon, then by all means buy now. I certainly would based on what we think we know now. GJ

First Question: GJ response: Remains to be seen. We are assured that the new springs will fit and do their job much better than the OEM 4 leaf ones. But one hitch in the game plan has already surfaced, and we don't know yet that they will be a Direct Replacement until they are installed and a few miles gets put upon them. Best wait just a tad and see how this plays out. But the odds are for sure with a successful deployment of the new product. With much greater safety margins as well I believe. Second Question: GJ Response: No. Good quality springs that are not abused or overloaded have a VERY long life span. With the new 5 leaf springs it would not be necessary to have a spare. If you were thinking of keeping your old springs, you would need to buy a 4 leaf spring as a spare. No point in spending money on what appears to be a bad product for our use. GJ

Is this what's OEM on our Elite II trailers? 4-Leaf Double-Eye Spring for 5,000-lb Trailer Axles - 25-1/4" Long etrailer Trailer Leaf Springs e44SR I could measure myself and/or search the forum, but if one of you know... Our OTT has 4 very straight leaf spring assemblies. I just worked the brakes, replaced the bearings with Timken... If this is a direct replacement, I should just buy one and put it first in the bottom of my truck toolbox.

I went outside to see how loud the movie was that I had going inside as it was late and the trailer is parked by the garage and is my "man cave". I also couldn't hear it. No worries for the neighbors. Good selling point for OTT to mention. John

Hi Everyone, we just bought hull #1147! We spent the past few weeks cleaning and performing some minor maintenance on this LE2. We just went on a weekend camping trip to Larabee park in Bellingham WA and it is such a nice little camper. Our kids have grown up and left home and this new to us camper is going to be our getaway plan for weekends and vacations! Anyhow we are looking forward to getting to know and learning from you all.

Grab a Pepsi and get to making your new baby yours. Hopefully you will be able to make it to the Owner's Rally in May. Bill

I've never understood why this is not mentioned by Oliver Sales. For me, it is one of the best parts of the Oliver experience. Bill

John: As you know, we have Hull #1291, 1 after yours. Our springs are 4-leaf, so I am sure your are also 4-leaf.

@Jason Foster last year was my first time going to ANY type of rally. I had a great time. I'm a solo-camper and, like you, not too found of crowds. This rally is not really a crowd, more like a sizable group of like-minded folks. LOL. I met a bunch of great new friends. I REALLY enjoyed walking the grounds early in the morning taking photos on the lake. The HUGE lake is super peaceful in both mornings and evenings and the relaxed nature of the group was inviting. I've tried to come out of my shell a bit by simply walking up to folks sitting by their campfire to say hello. Everyone is super warm and friendly. I guess if they weren't they would not show up. LOL I may end up needing to work a bit myself, but I'm an IT guy, so have internet access will travel - well, I'm trying to do that more at least. Trying to get more nerve up to do that more often as I approach retirement. I also kept busy last year helping several folks fixing small, minor issues on their rigs or show them around their new rigs - some new, some previously owned rigs. Some of the big questions I found was about hooking up the rig with the Andersen hitch system, which most folks don't spell correctly. LOL - hopefully I just did - hehe. Hope to see you there. Cheers,

Our LE2 was built with 5200lb axles but with just the 4-leaf springs. Plan on changing them out and using the same USA made springs that @Mountainman198 is using but just a little worried about the possibility of a rougher ride putting addition stress on the trailer and components. Have you experienced any such issues running the 5-leaf springs?

YES

I most certainly will. Waiting to see and touch them first and confirm the measurements and specs are right (should be no issue). Once I have confirmed this I will share the info and contact details.

Wise words. 👍🏻

John, I don’t think there’s any rhyme or reason to why, or when the springs are breaking. They are breaking due to metal fatigue, and or the quality of the steel that they were originally made from.

When I spoke to Mike at ALCAN, I asked about what happens when a spring breaks. He said generally the broken spring won't come in contact with the ground (which was my worst-case fear) but he said the real concern is if the axle with the broken springs moves into the stabilized axle causing the wheels to hit each other. He said it can l cause severe damage to the wheels, tires and possibly the trailer.

Someone posted a mod sometime in the past where they remounted the temp sensor on an insulated riser to address that issue. Our '21 E2 would freeze up lines to bathroom by the mid teens. Have changed since but we noticed that water lines ran right along the reflectix on the hull, under the galley. That insulation does a poor job with conductive heat loss. We had planned on sliding on some pipe insulation to isolate the pex from the reflectix. Would have been easy enough. Different location but may be a similar situation. On the outdoor shower, we screwed off the shower head, pulled the unit into the hull and re-installed the head. Removed the temperature knobs and filled the open space behind the little door with open cell foam. Worked great.

In the fine print, they always state to run at the minimum when under the min, and of course do not exceed the maximum. Given you actually keep your Oliver at 6000 LBS, you can run 35 PSI. I would not suggest subtracting tongue weight, since when running at highway speeds the hitch is bouncing up and down and half the time ALL weight is on the trailer wheels. This is why for years, yes YEARS @John E Davies ran his Oliver at 42 PSI, and suggested we all do the same. I've been at 46 PSI last two outings. Those of you still running 50, 60, even 80 PSI, STOP doing that. According to Michelin, 40 PSI is a good number for the Elite II, and when we leave to Casa Grande next week, I'm going with exactly 42 PSI to honor our good friend John E. I wonder if there is some correlation between spring failure and those running the 80 PSI printed on the tire? Or, have these springs failed mainly on those pushing the GTRW? Perhaps, but again the broken cross-section looked like cr@p and some of these leaf springs were not hardened properly. When not hardened properly, steel will bend. These springs should not bend as in the picture above. They should break if over-stressed (over the GTWR), but not bend.

I must be blind, but I can't find contact info for Alcan. Can you share that?

@hobo Did Mike at ALCAN give you more information on why he thught the 4 spring set was "inadequate for our trailers" ? Thanks

OK, a little more information provided by "Mike" at ALCAN relative to a four spring setup vs the five spring setup. I specifically asked Mike about simply swapping out our cheap, Chinese produced Dexter 4 spring set with a quality 4 spring set that they produce. He highly recommended going with the five spring set. In his opinion, the 3500 springs used by Dexter are inadequate for our trailers. That's good enough for me. I had asked about their 4 spring set as by yesterday (Friday) morning (the morning after Mountainman198) had posted the vendor source note, they had already sold out of the last 3 remaining stock of 5 spring sets to other Oliver owners. I was the first call Friday morning and he advised they were producing more next week (11-15 March) but wouldn't ship until NLT than Friday the 15th. Well we're departing on the 22nd of March for a six week trip and that schedule was almost a guarantee that at best, I might receive the shipped springs in time for the trip but wouldn't have time to install them. I of course would order them and have them with me just in case. So I locked in my order at 0700 yesterday morning. When I talked to Mike later yesterday he said based on my somewhat immediate need, he discussed with his production folks and they said they could have a set produced for me by next Wednesday (vice Friday) and they would be shipped that day. That's GREAT customer service. He also mentioned to me to me that in the time between having talked to him in the morning (0700), and when I called back at around 2PM, he had sold five more sets to Oliver trailer owners. He said "You Oliver trailer owners are a really tight knit group". He actually was so impressed, he went on line and investigated Oliver Travel Trailers. I have my RV mechanic on standby to replace my springs once they are received. He's having me bring in my trailer once I get the "shipped" notice so that it's already there in his shop the moment the springs arrive. To that end, my new springs should be installed before our departure on Friday, 22 March. I'll report back my findings once installed. Thanks again to Mountainman198 for all his efforts. Paul & Donna (2 HOBOS) hull 414 (last trailer produced in 2018)

Rivernerd I only have a couple of suggestions about heavier springs besides the obvious considerations. One potential issue or set of issues have to do with frame integrity. The Oliver frame is extremely strong and in all likelihood would never be an issue but overloading is overloading. Rest assured that there is not another mainstream trailer in the USA that has a frame that even comes close to the strength of the Oliver frame design. The overland trailers with heavy galvanized structural steel frames are in another category altogether. The other issue with loading the trailer heavier than what it was originally certified to will definitely cause insurance issues and liability issues and legal issues in the event of an accident. I personally am leaning heavily towards replacing my springs with heavier ones just to have a larger factor of safety and less worry about spring failure. I carry two extra springs in my truck just in case but I don’t at all look forward to replacing them on the road. At least I have all of the parts even if for some reason I can’t do the work myself.

I am sure there are other US Spring manufacturers that use US made 5160 spring steel. I encourage people to do their own research and let the group know if you find other sources. In my week-long search I found only two manufacturers that returned my inquiries. I knew previously of ALCAN and their offroad spring Creds and they had the springs in stock so I went with them. St. Louis Spring also replied to my inquiry but required that I purchase a new replacement spring of the specs I wanted and send it to them to replicate. I have included their response below in case there are owners local to St. Louis and for whom this requirement would not be such a obstacle. Note in their response they also recommend adding a fifth leaf. Best of luck in your own sourcing. Please post any concrete updates on places which meet the "made in USA with USA 51560 steel" criteria. It is always good to have multiiple sources from which to choose. Also, perhaps Oliver may wish to follow this path for suspension on future trailers. Our legwork may help facilitate this as a future upgrade, placing Oliver even farther up the quality metric amongst the pool of RV mediocrity. As far as running a set of 8,000 springs vs. 7,000 I am prepared to run even lower tire pressures to smooth out the ride in order to avoid the roadside PITA of a broken spring, instead having a potential trade-off of quicker tire wear and lower towing mpg. I was lucky that my issue was noticed at a Love's with a newly built, adjacent RV Stop RV park which featured large, newly poured cement pads, new luxury showers, power and quiet sleep. Also, a local, Good-Ole Boy RV shop/contractor who had the pair of springs to get me home and did not bend me over the cash register. Your mileage may vary should this happen to you. I am doing everything I can to make sure I do not end up in this predicament again. At minimum, I recommend buying a spare spring (or two) to carry with you on every trip. Ironically, ScubaRX and I had this exact discussion not more than two weeks earlier (after meeting another E2 owner in Quartzsite who had broken a spring) and I was planning to order a pair of springs to carry as spares once I got home...UGH. Best wishes, Lance Spring Team <springteam@saintlouisspring.com> Fri, Mar 1, 9:06 AM (6 days ago) to me We can definitely makes this for you and would be made here with American steel, however we would need a sample to duplicate and a lot of times on these travel trailers we make them heavier by adding a leaf to each. Thanks The Spring Team St. Louis Spring Company Tel: 314-533-2132 Email: springteam@saintlouisspring.com Web: https://saintlouisspring.com

How about an individually adjustable pneumatic airbag type suspension for Ollie? No axles - lighter, smoother ride - less damage to OTT and components, no more broken leaf springs, more ground clearance by adjusting air pressure, enhanced braking, and "drum roll" please.... no more zerks! ...screenshot taken from an earlier thread on "Aussie Quality RVs": ....just say'n

The curb side rear spring was in the process of failing as well. Starting to flatten with the rearward end starting to invert. I have attached the tag from the springs on my trailer. According to Oliver, they are made by Emco

If you don’t mind, please share the information on where you purchased your new USA made springs. Last year I purchased two replacement springs from Dexter along with new U bolts and nuts, wrapped the springs and carry them in the truck just in case.

This is not usually a problem, except for the elderly folks.