Surge Protector

[HDRider]

Should I use an external surge protector with my 2023 E II?

I searched the forum and could not find a definitive answer.

[topgun2]

I assume that your Ollie has the onboard surge protector.

If that assumption is correct then there is really no need to have an external one, but, there are those owners that do like to have "double" the protection.

Bill

[Dave Mazone]

Hello Friend,

I don't know if it's necessary, but I use a pretty good external protector. I don't recall the name of it right now but I haven't had any problems with it. I'd rather blow out an external device than one in the trailer.

PS: It has warned me of trouble before, so I just disconnected from power and relied on my batteries and solar.

 

 

 

[HDRider]

22 minutes ago, topgun2 said:

I assume that your Ollie has the onboard surge protector.

Bill

Thank you.  The User Manual confirms what you said.

SURGE PROTECTOR Your travel trailer is equipped with a Progressive Industries EMS-HW30C (electrical management system) surge protector. The surge protector is designed to protect the trailer’s electrical system that is connected on the output side of the surge protector. The shore power connection, cord to the surge protector, and transfer switch (if equipped with optional second shore power connection) are not protected by the onboard surge protector.

https://olivertraveltrailers.com/wp-content/uploads/oliver-university/2023/2023 OTT Owners Manual E2 Web.pdf

 

[HDRider]

29 minutes ago, Dave Mazone said:

Hello Friend,

I don't know if it's necessary, but I use a pretty good external protector. I don't recall the name of it right now but I haven't had any problems with it. I'd rather blow out an external device than one in the trailer.

PS: It has warned me of trouble before, so I just disconnected from power and relied on my batteries and solar.

 

 

I am a belt and suspenders guy so I think I will get one.  No special hurry but I would value knowing what brand you have.   I am looking at this one.

 

https://www.progressiveindustries.net/ems-pt30x

 

29 minutes ago, Dave Mazone said:

 

 

[Steph and Dud B]

1 hour ago, HDRider said:

I am a belt and suspenders guy so I think I will get one.

That's the one we have. Didn't buy it for the Oliver, we already had it from a previous trailer, but figured we'd use it since we had it. I check the LEDs on it before I plug the Oliver into it as a quick check on the power status.

[Geronimo John]

Full credit to the Eaton Corporation for the below graphic.

My post addresses a bit of the technical side as to why some owners like double protection and use an additional surge protector at the utility source.

As indicated in the Eaton Corporation graphic, there are six components in better surge protectors designed for RV use.  Most of them act as filters to block noise and surges.  One, the Metal Oxide Varistors (Blue disks below) work differently.  They actually absorb voltage spikes.  And they do it very well.  However, over time they take a lot of "hits" and in the process of absorbing the excess energy they degrade.  As they degrade their effectiveness declines.  These components generally are not serviceable.  So if a spike gets absorbed by a surge protector at the pole, it extends the life of the much more expensive surge protector in our trailers.   

Additionally, the Metal Oxide Varistors in any surge protector can only absorb a limited amount.  Lets say that your camp ground has a tremendous spike heading your way.  The Chokes and Inductors of your power pole will "knock down" the spike as much as they can.  What gets by then hits the surge protector in the trailer.  This one knocks the spike down further.  It also gives us an error code that we can see inside the trailer allowing us to take action (hopefully) before the next spike hits us. 

As is evident, it is for sure belts AND suspenders, and for many locations is highly recommended.  

Hope this helps,

GJ

 

[StillGame]

One more consideration. Replacing an external unit is a lot easier than the cost and time to replace the onboard unit.

[jd1923]

28 minutes ago, StillGame said:

One more consideration. Replacing an external unit is a lot easier than the cost and time to replace the onboard unit.

To me it's like paying two insurance companies to cover liability on your truck! Borderline paranoic, no need from any engineering or electrician point of view.

The PD EMS-HW30C is quite a capable device, which over 99.9% of the time can be reset by unplugging shore power. You'd likely have plug this into a 240V circuit to get the E10 error "Replace Surge." 

I just installed one in our older hull, since back then OTT did not include one. If you have to replace it, a small Phillips to open the cover and a flat-blade screwdriver to do the rest. The AC wires coming in (black, white and green) and the same 3 in the same orientation going out. The hot on the output side goes through sensing coil, and that's that. What if a lesser outdoor unit failed, caused a dead short and in turn killed your EMS-HW30C?

Sure glad I will not have to work one more camp setup/tear-down task and stow another device! But that's me and I never wear suspenders! As they would just give me a kink in neck or sore shoulders.

 

[mountainoliver]

I experienced an issue with the factory installed surge protector that damaged my compressor fridge control board. A couple of years ago we were in a campground which was experiencing extreme voltage spikes. The voltage was spiking to nearly 200 volts then dropping back to a normal 120ish then several minutes later spiking back to near 200. We were not at the camper during much of this and as soon as I realized what was happening I disconnected from shore power and operated on 12 volts for the rest of our stay. The problem is that the surge protector interrupts the incoming power but then reconnects the power. This situation is both good and bad. It’s good because it automatically reconnects the power somewhat seamlessly. The bad is because it reconnects power somewhat seamlessly. By the power turning off and on fairly rapidly the compressor control board was rapidly and repeatedly switching between DC and AC supply. Be aware that some electrical or electronic equipment can be damaged by repeated on/off cycles. So, based on this one probably rare occurrence I might be inclined to search for an additional layer of protection. I am leaning towards a boost transformer based product like the 30 amp Hughes surge protector. The boost transformer will increase the voltage if it sags and will absorb the voltage if it increases too much along with the normal surge absorbing solid state devices. I’m still looking into this option as there may be other alternatives out there that are better. Anyway, just a thought. As a side note: I contacted the Progressive Industries folks with a question about the large difference between the amp reading on the remote readout and my clamp meter. They didn’t know the answer nor did they really care to try to figure it out but, they sent me both of the internal circuit boards and the sensor coil. Basically all of the internals of the surge protector free no questions asked. I did tell them that the unit is seven years old but that didn’t seem to matter. So even after seven years they still sent out free parts to rebuild the surge protector……not bad. 

[Rivernerd]

1 hour ago, StillGame said:

One more consideration. Replacing an external unit is a lot easier than the cost and time to replace the onboard unit.

I concur with StillGame.  I carry a 30A PowerWatchdog unit, which I plug into the campsite pedestal, then connect a 30A power cord to the PowerWatchdog.  It saved me once from a bad power connection at the pedestal.  Cheaper and easier to replace,  if necessary, than the onboard EMS.

 

[Ollie-Haus]

So far I've made it my practice to test the plug prior to connecting the camper and rely on the onboard progressive unit to do it's job.

I can see the interest some have in protecting the hard wired device, and have purchased a portable device but just haven't put it to use. 

I purchased a Progressive Industries circuit tester before getting the Oliver. I leave it in the same tote that I store the shore power cord in.

Step one - Test the power supply. Step two - If good, drag out the cord and connect. 

Circuit Tester

[MnM]

On 1/4/2024 at 1:29 PM, Ollie-Haus said:

So far I've made it my practice to test the plug prior to connecting the camper and rely on the onboard progressive unit to do it's job.

I can see the interest some have in protecting the hard wired device, and have purchased a portable device but just haven't put it to use. 

I purchased a Progressive Industries circuit tester before getting the Oliver. I leave it in the same tote that I store the shore power cord in.

Step one - Test the power supply. Step two - If good, drag out the cord and connect. 

Circuit Tester

I do the same with the exact same tester. Once I know the plug is wired correctly I plug in and trust the onboard surge protector made by the same company.  

[Ronbrink]

On 1/4/2024 at 1:44 PM, mountainoliver said:

I am leaning towards a boost transformer based product like the 30 amp Hughes surge protector.

I posted my Hughes Autoformer install yesterday in Ollie Modifications, it may be of interest if you. 

[mountainoliver]

Yes, I read your post about this. Interesting, but l’m still trying to figure out the ideal location in my trailer. The location that you chose is absolutely the best location and using plugs for the wiring connections is exactly what I was thinking about as well. I currently use that location for some storage so need to move that elsewhere. I would like to have an extra level of incoming power filtering. I may have mentioned it in my previous post that even with the Oliver surge protection a series of power surges (not spikes) damaged a control board. Incoming power was rising to almost 200 volts and remaining at that level for several seconds. The surge protector would block it but the surge would happen several times in a row. Anyway, your installation is very well done. Thanks for posting the details. 

[Geronimo John]

Amazon has scores of surge protectors to choose from.  And as apparent from the above posts, each owner has their concerns in mind for their use.  So, for a pedestal power pole used as a supplemental protection, my concern is spikes and RF noise.  Not sustained voltages beyond standard as MountainOliver sadly experienced.

For the purpose of voltage noise and spikes, having a plug-in type with lots of joules capacity is the goal.  Keeping it light, simple and inexpensive is the idea from my minimalist perspective.  If those are your goals, then this one seems to fit bill and costs a LOT less than most others at the 8,000+ joules rating:

 

[Patriot]

On 1/4/2024 at 1:54 PM, StillGame said:

One more consideration. Replacing an external unit is a lot easier than the cost and time to replace the onboard unit.

Agree.
I choose to allow my external shore power portable EMS take the “sacrificial” ⚡️spike, surge or lighting strike ⚡️vs replacing my Oliver onboard EMS several thousand miles from home potentially interrupting a planned trip. No overthink needed here. 🤔😄

Onward!

Edited August 15 by Patriot

[John Dorrer]

The top 3 portable EMS surge protectors are Southwire Surge Guard, Hughes Watchdog EPO, and Progressive.

 

I can only speak for the Hughes Watchdog. It has the EPO feature which will shut off power to the trailer if there is an issue, and turn back on when all is well at the post. It also has Bluetooth so you can see the current status.

 

https://rvelectricity.com/2018/09/23/rvelectricity-can-i-add-a-second-surge-protector/

[CRM]

6 minutes ago, John Dorrer said:

The top 3 portable EMS surge protectors are Southwire Surge Guard, Hughes Watchdog EPO, and Progressive.

 

I can only speak for the Hughes Watchdog. It has the EPO feature which will shut off power to the trailer if there is an issue, and turn back on when all is well at the post. It also has Bluetooth so you can see the current status.

 

https://rvelectricity.com/2018/09/23/rvelectricity-can-i-add-a-second-surge-protector/

The Hughes Watchdog EPO is a great unit. One thing to consider if you're also using a Hughes Autoformer is that the EPO unit should be installed downstream of the Autoformer. If not, when voltage drops to 104 volts the EPO will cut off power completely and and the Autoformer won't be able to do it's job of boosting voltage 10% and keeping it at a safe level.  Ask me how I know!😄

[rich.dev]

On 1/9/2024 at 11:05 AM, MnM said:

 

On 1/4/2024 at 3:29 PM, Ollie-Haus said:

So far I've made it my practice to test the plug prior to connecting the camper and rely on the onboard progressive unit to do it's job.

I can see the interest some have in protecting the hard wired device, and have purchased a portable device but just haven't put it to use. 

I purchased a Progressive Industries circuit tester before getting the Oliver. I leave it in the same tote that I store the shore power cord in.

Step one - Test the power supply. Step two - If good, drag out the cord and connect. 

Circuit Tester

 

 

On 1/9/2024 at 11:05 AM, MnM said:

On 1/4/2024 at 3:29 PM, Ollie-Haus said:

Circuit Tester

I do the same with the exact same tester. Once I know the plug is wired correctly I plug in and trust the onboard surge protector made by the same company

And me……great minds think alike! 😊

[Zodd]

On 1/4/2024 at 8:11 AM, HDRider said:

The surge protector is designed to protect the trailer’s electrical system that is connected on the output side of the surge protector. The shore power connection, cord to the surge protector, and transfer switch (if equipped with optional second shore power connection) are not protected by the onboard surge protector

This is really what drove me to have double protection. Plus a way of verifying the post before plugging in (I did not think of just going the tester route). 

[skalywag]

Also, I started to check the camp outlets before hooking up every time. Especially after watching the dude in the adjacent sight back his Fiver over the electrical post. I use an inexpensive electrical continuity checker thingie and have been glad I did on several occasions.

[mountainoliver]

This is the tester that I use before I plug in. It displays the voltage and checks several different potential power issues. Keep in mind that this type of meter only gives you a snapshot of power issues. Most of the power issues thus far discussed have been intermittent and random in nature. The power issue that I mentioned only occurred every once in a while but was bad enough to cause damage even with the factory installed surge protector. The actual surges were not the problem because the surge protector stopped them. The problem was that the power was switching on and off rapidly and several cycles in a row. 

[mossemi]

I like to test the power pole prior to spotting the Ollie and if I’m not blocking traffic I won’t even back in until I have verified the power pole is in working order.

Mossey

[Patriot]

1 hour ago, mossemi said:

I like to test the power pole prior to spotting the Ollie and if I’m not blocking traffic I won’t even back in until I have verified the power pole is in working order.

Mossey

A good practice!✅