SARS-Cov-2/Covid-19 and Travel

[Mike and Carol]

32 minutes ago, ahattar said:

 Lets be real, not a lot of spring chickens in this group!  

Wait just a minute...., I resemble that remark! 🤣

[BackofBeyond]

 

13 hours ago, ahattar said:

 Lets be real, not a lot of spring chickens in this group!  

To be clear -  I am a mid summer "chicken" with the a mindset of a  -  I'm just breaking out of my shell !!

Yes this epidemic is a little over blown, but by and large the activities I engage in,  with and without my Oliver, are not usually  in a crowd or gathering atmosphere. Social distancing, who knew? Now I have a name for it.

What is evident, with our  current cultural norm,  seemingly,  being a reactive animal, folks are doing just as I imagined, and panicking at the last min.  

But the bright spot, you can always stay in the Oliver when the last of the services go off line... just kidding, about the off line thing...sort of,

RB

 

[gatorewc]

Yes you will get some newer members in the fall!  We will be picking up our Ollie in July and look forward to being at the rally in September.  This is probably the only bright side I have found with the virus.  Maybe the other bright side is people have stopped and refocused on what is important and how truly special each day is.  I too am not buying all the media hype and feel for people whose lively hood will be drastically affected.  Hopefully some resemblance of normalcy will return soon.

[DavidS]

Earlier posts described the covid-19 epidemic as “blown out of proportion,” or “over blown,” or “media hype.” I have to strenuously disagree with those characterizations. 

This virus is extremely transmissible between people, and epidemiologists predict 40-70% of Americans will likely get infected. Yes, 80% of those people infected will have mild to moderate symptoms. However, 20% of infected individuals will have severe respiratory problems. Many of these people will require hospitalization. Many of these hospitalized people will require advanced interventions, including isolation, ICU care, and treatment with a ventilator. Unfortunately our health care has limited numbers of hospital beds, ICU space, and especially ventilators and trained respiratory technicians. The best estimates are that 1-3% of infected people will die. How many die depends upon how well our health care infrastructure can deal with the number of cases. 

In Italy they were slow to respond to the epidemic, and people are dying in record numbers. They don't have nearly enough hospital beds, and physicians are having to make triage decisions as to who gets treatment, and who lives and who dies. Read about it. It is very upsetting. 

You may have heard the term “flatten the curve.” Simply put, this means that if we do not shut down large gatherings and practice social distancing, based on the data from other countries, within a month we will have an enormous spike of infections, and 20% of those will have severe problems. Our health care system will not be able to cope, and many will die. If instead, we can slow the rate of transmission, then people will get infected over a much long period of time. This does not necessarily mean that fewer people will get infected, in total, but that fewer people will be infected at any point in time. That means there will be fewer people with severe respiratory problems at any one time, and hopefully there are enough ICU beds and ventilators available to meet the need. And that means fewer people will die. 

While each one of us is unlikely to have an infection with severe problems, it is nonetheless very important for all of us to do what we can to slow the rate of transmission. 

 

Edited March 15, 2020 by DavidS
Added "Keep Calm"

[ahattar]

All probably true.  Question is, will people learn from this.  I'm sure this will pull on some strings but as far as I'm concerned, we already live too long, proof being how old folks die unhappy and often with no dignity.  As a society we are getting more and more centrally populated and reliant.  Most importantly, we are getting fatter, less active and just unhealthier in general.  This point is Americans biggest risk.  I'm sure all those silly vape pens aren't helping either.  Hopefully at the very least people won't continue hiding from the truth after all this blows over.....scratch that, there is no hope for that, we'll just blame the Chinese.  We have a society panicking over toilet paper, I think we are too far gone!  

Edited March 15, 2020 by ahattar
Didn't mean to quote

[WhatDa]

We're in King County, WA - in I guess what you could call the epicenter of the outbreak in the US.  The wife and I, based on the statistics*, would be fine if we caught it, but we are taking steps to ensure that if we did catch it, we would not spread it.  Our biggest risk is probably getting mauled in a panic stampede.  Even with the hysteria over the disease, we still get huge crowds clustering at the door (2' separation) at Costco to buy their year's supply of toilet paper.  So rational behavior is out the window.  Postponing to September means we have a chance of attending as we were busy in June -- but probably means putting snow tires on for the trip back home 🙂

 

[Overland]

FYI, I have removed several posts from the Rally thread and merged them into this one.  Hopefully that hasn't disrupted the flow of conversation too terribly.

Please keep the discussion relevant to Travel Related Issues and the coronavirus.  The moderators understand that this issue is on everyones mind, but we appreciate everyone's help in not venturing too far off topic.

Edited March 15, 2020 by Overland

[HMD1056]

Thank you, Overland.  When I started this topic, things had not gotten so out of hand.  And I was and still am curious about how folks with OTTs out and about would protect themselves.  I could be wrong, but truly I believe that people who are camping in out of way locations with their supplies are probably safer.  I love the ideas those who responded have.  Being careful about hygiene, being in fresh air and sunshine, cooking meals at "home", and being proactive when one has to have contact with other people are all paramount in protecting oneself and loved ones.  Thank you to all who have replied.  Now, on my retired teacher's soap box:  not everyone will react to the constraints Covid-19 has caused in a positive way.  I can't control how others react...and I don't want to waste energy trying.  Stay close to your own hearts.  This pandemic is going to bring out the good, the bad, the beauty, and the ugly in people.  In my community in Louisiana, I've seen the bad and ugly.  But, I have looked carefully and am also seeing the good people helping others.  Beautiful hearts.  If OTT feels the need to close down for a while to protect their workers, I have no doubt it will be to protect their workers.  No one can make the product they do, with the support they provide, and not be truly good people with beautiful hearts.  JMHO.  Be well, everyone.  Take care of yourselves and your loved ones.  Stay close to your heart.  Pray for an easier world.  

[Landrover]

1 hour ago, Overland said:

FYI, I have removed several posts from the Rally thread and merged them into this one.  Hopefully that hasn't disrupted the flow of conversation too terribly.

Please keep the discussion relevant to Travel Related Issues and the coronavirus.  The moderators understand that this issue is on everyones mind, but we appreciate everyone's help in not venturing too far off topic.

Overland you can merge my posts onto this one. Unless some facts may not sit right on this post according to you.

[Patriot]

On 3/15/2020 at 11:12 AM, DavidS said:

Earlier posts described the covid-19 epidemic as “blown out of proportion,” or “over blown,” or “media hype.” I have to strenuously disagree with those characterizations. 

This virus is extremely transmissible between people, and epidemiologists predict 40-70% of Americans will likely get infected. Yes, 80% of those people infected will have mild to moderate symptoms. However, 20% of infected individuals will have severe respiratory problems. Many of these people will require hospitalization. Many of these hospitalized people will require advanced interventions, including isolation, ICU care, and treatment with a ventilator. Unfortunately our health care has limited numbers of hospital beds, ICU space, and especially ventilators and trained respiratory technicians. The best estimates are that 1-3% of infected people will die. How many die depends upon how well our health care infrastructure can deal with the number of cases. 

In Italy they were slow to respond to the epidemic, and people are dying in record numbers. They don't have nearly enough hospital beds, and physicians are having to make triage decisions as to who gets treatment, and who lives and who dies. Read about it. It is very upsetting. 

You may have heard the term “flatten the curve.” Simply put, this means that if we do not shut down large gatherings and practice social distancing, based on the data from other countries, within a month we will have an enormous spike of infections, and 20% of those will have severe problems. Our health care system will not be able to cope, and many will die. If instead, we can slow the rate of transmission, then people will get infected over a much long period of time. This does not necessarily mean that fewer people will get infected, in total, but that fewer people will be infected at any point in time. That means there will be fewer people with severe respiratory problems at any one time, and hopefully there are enough ICU beds and ventilators available to meet the need. And that means fewer people will die. 

While each one of us is unlikely to have an infection with severe problems, it is nonetheless very important for all of us to do what we can to slow the rate of transmission. 

 

 

DavidS,

I concur with all of what you said above. Very well stated. I just had a discussion via private message chat on FB with a friend of mine who I was stationed with at Aviano AB in Italy in the mid 80’s. He finished out his military career there, retired, and now lives with his family in the Friuli region of Northern Italy. This area was hit very hard by Covid19.
Long story short, he said that this is a very serious virus and many many people are dying. He said that Italy did not take the Covid19 seriously at first and as a result the virus took off. Essentially Italy did not cut off travel tourism etc. I think for now staying put, and doing everything we can to stay healthy is key to getting through this. My friend and his family are doing ok so far. They are hunkered down and staying put. But he cautioned me, it’s a very serious disease and presently it’s not letting up and still ravaging Italy. FWIW.

David 

Edited March 17, 2020 by Patriot

[SeaDawg]

Patriot , a year ago, we were in Italy, visiting my husband's family. I talked to our cousin in Italy,  Giuliana online. They're in the danger region,too, but ok,  so far. Including Grampa, in his late 80s. For that, I'm very, very thankful. 

We know this virus is on everyone's mind. That's why we kept the thread open, but ask everyone to keep it nonpolitical, noninflammatory. We get enough of that on tv, radio, and web.

And and we split it from the rally topic, as we need to keep that topic clear for announcements. 

We appreciate everyone hanging in there, and wish you all safe,  healthy, and happy camping.

Sherry

PS. I'll  add this, as a member, not moderator. I really get more than enough news on the web and radio  about the virus. (I don't watch tv.)  I  really would like  to visit the forum for camping info, and Oliver info. Sharing. Community.

I've been here since 2008. We've all lived through a lot. Let's go camping! 

S.

 

 

 

 

 

[Patriot]

5 hours ago, SeaDawg said:

Patriot , a year ago, we were in Italy, visiting my husband's family. I talked to our cousin in Italy,  Giuliana online. They're in the danger region,too, but ok,  so far. Including Grampa, in his late 80s. For that, I'm very, very thankful. 

We know this virus is on everyone's mind. That's why we kept the thread open, but ask everyone to keep it nonpolitical, noninflammatory. We get enough of that on tv, radio, and web.

And and we split it from the rally topic, as we need to keep that topic clear for announcements. 

We appreciate everyone hanging in there, and wish you all safe,  healthy, and happy camping.

Sherry

PS. I'll  add this, as a member, not moderator. I really get more than enough news on the web and radio  about the virus. (I don't watch tv.)  I  really would like  to visit the forum for camping info, and Oliver info. Sharing. Community.

I've been here since 2008. We've all lived through a lot. Let's go camping! 

S.

 

 

 

 

 

Sea dawg,

I certainly hope you did not take my post personal or political or inflammatory. I am merely passing along the story and concerns of a dear friend of mine and his family who are presently living in Italy and are attempting to survive living out how potent and dangerous the Wuhan Covid19 virus really is. 
I could not agree more, the virus is certainly on the entire worlds mind for sure. I think we can all agree that we need to take every step possible to not spread the virus and just be as safe as possible. As DavidS wisely mentioned -slow the transmission. 

Traveling or camping right now in the midst of a deadly pandemic is just not something we will be pursuing. We will make every attempt to be safe and wise by minimizing exposure or transmission through social distancing and staying home as recommended by the medical experts. 

Kathy and I will continue to lift up our thoughts and prayers for all people including your husbands family in Italy impacted by this terrible disease. This to shall pass.

The happier news is we are signed up and looking forward to attending the OTT Rally in September at Lake Guntersville State Park. Really looking forward to meeting our extended Oliver family! 
 

-Patriot
 

Edited March 16, 2020 by Patriot

[Landrover]

I have a thought. No rally needs to be cancelled. Everyone set up they Oliver’s in there driveway turn on face time and enjoy the camping experience. The new Norm.

[JWalmsley]

On 3/6/2020 at 2:37 PM, Mike and Carol said:

Nope, not canceling any plans. We just returned today from the Texas gulf coast. The state park was full. Not sure if we’ll camp before the rally.  If we do and the virus is real bad we might just go somewhere remote. 

The perks of owning an Oliver.

[wyofilm]

On 3/15/2020 at 9:12 AM, DavidS said:

Earlier posts described the covid-19 epidemic as “blown out of proportion,” or “over blown,” or “media hype.” I have to strenuously disagree with those characterizations. 

This virus is extremely transmissible between people, and epidemiologists predict 40-70% of Americans will likely get infected. Yes, 80% of those people infected will have mild to moderate symptoms. However, 20% of infected individuals will have severe respiratory problems. Many of these people will require hospitalization. Many of these hospitalized people will require advanced interventions, including isolation, ICU care, and treatment with a ventilator. Unfortunately our health care has limited numbers of hospital beds, ICU space, and especially ventilators and trained respiratory technicians. The best estimates are that 1-3% of infected people will die. How many die depends upon how well our health care infrastructure can deal with the number of cases. 

In Italy they were slow to respond to the epidemic, and people are dying in record numbers. They don't have nearly enough hospital beds, and physicians are having to make triage decisions as to who gets treatment, and who lives and who dies. Read about it. It is very upsetting. 

You may have heard the term “flatten the curve.” Simply put, this means that if we do not shut down large gatherings and practice social distancing, based on the data from other countries, within a month we will have an enormous spike of infections, and 20% of those will have severe problems. Our health care system will not be able to cope, and many will die. If instead, we can slow the rate of transmission, then people will get infected over a much long period of time. This does not necessarily mean that fewer people will get infected, in total, but that fewer people will be infected at any point in time. That means there will be fewer people with severe respiratory problems at any one time, and hopefully there are enough ICU beds and ventilators available to meet the need. And that means fewer people will die. 

While each one of us is unlikely to have an infection with severe problems, it is nonetheless very important for all of us to do what we can to slow the rate of transmission. 

 

What DavidS wrote gives an excellent overview of what will happen.  With 75%+ of everyone eventually getting infected by the covid-19 virus it is critical that our health care services are not overwhelmed with too many cases all at once.  Equally important is that by slowing the spread buys time for the testing, manufacturing, and distribution of existing antiviral drugs, some which might work to lessen the severity of infection.  Also, antibody treatments might be in the offing.  Buying time is a good thing.

 

[BackofBeyond]

Seems a few states are just beginning to respond = NC is shutting down state parks, I would believe in time,  many will follow.  It appears we are looking at an almost full stop effort to keep people movement and gathering  to a minimum for at least until April - or later. 

 

[John E Davies]

Folks please stop quoting entire long passages, including pictures,  it wastes bandwidth and also makes it harder to understand what you are referring to. It is very easy to edit out all the extra dross. Thank you.

Back to topic, my (healthy) wife and daughter could not enter a pharmacy in NZ yesterday to buy saline for their contact lenses, toothpaste and a few odds and ends, because it was posted “If you have been in New Zealand less than two weeks you are prohibited from entering for the safety of our customers blah blah blah.” How does a traveller in a foreign land “shelter in place” if they have no way to access local resources? They entered four days before a restriction was put into effect. Very troubling. And this sign is a great way to drive the last nail in the coffin of your economically critical tourism industry. If the owner were truly concerned, he would have asked patrons with the sniffles to please put on a mask from the box provided... 

Washington State is shut down now, but grocery stores and pharmacies are open. And Homeland Security says large bottles of sanitizer are now safe to carry onto a plane, which means they were always safe.

Grumble grumble. I hope everyone is well and remains well.

John Davies

Spokane WA

 

Edited March 17, 2020 by John E Davies

[Overland]

I just read that the National Park superintendents have been given permission to close their facilities as they deem necessary.  Lots of visitor centers and other indoor facilities closed, some restaurants, a few campgrounds, etc.  The Zion shuttle is closed.  A few urban parks are closing entirely.  

https://www.nationalparkstraveler.org/2020/03/park-superintendents-given-authority-manage-coronavirus-facilities-closing

Edited March 17, 2020 by Overland

[HMD1056]

I am sorry if by closing the fed/state/local parks it means the RV parking spaces.  I fully understand closing the visitor centers/stores/pavillions/etc  as keeping them clean would be impossible.  Being able to get yourself and loved ones out and about, away from others, and in a self contained RV spot would seem to me as a safe zone.  Perhaps my knowledge level is inadequate in this area.  BLM land?  Seems like they have always been open.  Perhaps that is the answer.  Maybe meet with trusted friends/family and park within earshot for safety.  Things will get worse before getting better and this greatly saddens me...for all of us.  

John Davis:  I am so happy for you and your family that they are healthy and safe in NZ!  NZ will and always has put their citizens first.  Perhaps someone at their hotel can purchase the items they need for them.  I would hope that this simple kindness is extended to them.  Again, I am so happy they are safe and well.

To all who read this forum:  Stay well.  Stay safe.  Take care of those you hold dear.  I will continue to pray for us all.  

[BackofBeyond]

It is without doubt that we will see the rise in cases as predicted, but accordingly, it will fall, as predicted, and eventually life will return to normal - whatever that is/was. 

But I am as confident,  the vast majority of Americans will do the correct things, and as a whole we will keep the  "curve" under control.

Ollie will sit - waiting for the all clear to travel signal. Guess I'll get to that garden - time to plant a few things.

Best wishes to all, RB.

[DavidS]

Caution before travelling. 

We had planned to leave Friday for a ten day camping trip to the Four Corners region of the Southwest. Mesa Verde, Chaco Canyon, Canyon de Chelly. It would have been a great trip, and we planned to listen to Tony Hillerman audiobooks on our drives. 

But several days ago we decided to cancel the trip, and to remain at home. We made this decision before the National Parks (and National Monuments?) started restricting entry, as noted by Overland. 

Here is the reason I am posting now. Our NPR Utah radio station covers the entire state, and in the past several days they have had several stories about how Moab is discouraging visitors because their health care infrastructure, like in many rural areas, is minimal. No ICUs, no infectious disease physicians, no ventilators. They do not want visitors getting sick and the community not be able to provide adequate health care. It is surprising that an area whose economy depends on tourist dollars would be discouraging visitors, but these are exceptional times. 

Then tonight, Moab shut down the town to visitors. All restaurants are closed. All “short-term lodging (hotels, motels, condos, townhomes, guest homes, RV parks, and all camping on public or private lands)" in four southern Utah counties are closed to non-residents. In other words, unless you are already there, you cannot camp anywhere. More info here. 

It is nice to think that our self-contained travel trailer can go anywhere, but right now that may not be true. We like to camp in remote areas, and right not that may or may not be permitted. Check before you depart. 

Safe travels, everyone. And wash your hands!

Edited March 18, 2020 by DavidS

[Galway Girl]

Washington State Parks - Link on COVID 19

https://parks.state.wa.us/1177/Novel-Coronavirus---COVID-19

Washington State parks and camping remain open.

In response to Gov. Inslee’s mandate, we are making the following changes to operations through April 30: 

• Visitor and interpretive centers are closed. 
• Most special activities and special permits are cancelled. 
• Planned programming is cancelled. 
• Group camp and group reservations such as picnic shelters are restricted.
• New camp hosts will not be placed in parks. Read more information for camp hosts.

We are taking additional measures to limit visitor and staff interactions at offices and at registration. This includes: 

• Using drive-up/walk-up windows when possible. 
• Limiting the number of visitors in an office. 
• Providing electronic options for purchasing passes and making reservations. 
• Using automated pay stations, where available. 

We ask that all visitors exhibit personal responsibility and take steps to protect their health and the health of others. 

As the situation changes, we will continue to follow the governor and public health officials’ guidance when it comes to managing our park system. 

 

[hobo]

We in fact have cancelled a month long trip due to our concerns.  The trip was to originate in TN for a factory service and then from there, we were going to head west to spend time in NM and AZ.  Then we were going to attend the rally in AL on the return trip back to VA.  Our main intent was to visit some friends of ours in the Phoenix area that have two youngsters.  Well, as a courtesy to them, and because we are finding more and more facilities, services and parks are shutting down, we are extremely uncomfortable being so far away from home under those circumstances.  We'll do it later when we don't have to worry about anything more complex than how many bottles and what kind of wine to take along.

[Mike and Carol]

On 3/6/2020 at 2:37 PM, Mike and Carol said:

Nope, not canceling any plans. We just returned today from the Texas gulf coast. The state park was full. Not sure if we’ll camp before the rally.  If we do and the virus is real bad we might just go somewhere remote. 

A lot has changed since March 6.  At this point, we’re not going anywhere.  Best to stay close to family, friends and our own health care.  I also understand that full-timers in some regions are having a hard time finding open parks.  I have a house so I’ll let the full time RVers use available camping spots.  Mike

[WhatDa]

We're in WA, happily camping away from our house in the Epicenter of this mess.  My office is a stone's throw away from the retirement home where most of our deaths have been.  I sold the tow vehicle just a bit ago, so trying to shop for a new one without actually going into dealers now.  Sad how many are still sending emails "I see you are interested, when would you like to come in so we can shake hands and spit on eachother".  One dealer that I worked with previously back east had it smart -- everything can be done online and they will deliver the car.  I am in the middle of a tech hub and it seems the dealers still want to deal with carbon paper and impact printers.  I may just order and rent an F350 from Enterprise. 

Once we have that sorted out, I'm thinking somewhere in Eastern WA to avoid allergy season -- which being coincident with this pandemic has me constant self evaluating myself.  Second thought would be to head to Glacier and sit and enjoy the view. 

Edited March 18, 2020 by WhatDa