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Showing content with the highest reputation on 05/01/2023 in all areas
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This is neither Mechanical nor Technical, but more maintenance. Not sure what other channel to place this. Hope it helps our new-comers. Someone on the Oliver Owners Facebook page saw my first video and asked me if I could video record actually how to clean the tracks under the windows. So, it was a beautiful day and I figured I'd see if I can clean and record at the same time. This is kind of new to me. https://youtu.be/-oEpon3iaPc7 points
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I thought that THIS was a secret. Just wait around for THAT knock on the door at zero dark thirty! It will normally be General ScubaRX doing the inspection - don't even think about giving him the ol' "side eye". And, yes, it is white glove! 😜4 points
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When I met Jim Oliver on Christmas day in 2007, near my home, he spent two hours showing me a trailer while telling me about his family, the company, and its loyalty to their employees. I was not only sold on the Oliver Elite but on the entire culture at OTI and OTT. At that time they not only matched employee's 401K donations, but if a young worker with a new and growing family was unable to contribute on their own, Oliver Travel Trailers still made a deposit on their behalf. Needless to say, I was sold the trailer, the Oliver family, and the Company. I committed to purchasing The Wonder Egg on Christmas day, 2007! The Wonder Egg still maintains its original beauty. Here's how it looks now, fifteen years after bringing it home.4 points
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There were probably 8-10 couples that went with Jim and Evon to eat that night. After it was all done, he picked up the entire bill. We all told him that he didn't need to do that, and we were able to pay for our meals, to which he said, "If it weren't for all of you sitting here tonight, I wouldn't be able to pay for your meal." Jim was a true Southern gentleman and I sure do miss him.3 points
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I used two 170 watt panels on the Oliver. I kept all the original Blue Sky equipment. I took the three 100 watt panels off the Oliver and used two of them to go onto the truck. I am using all Victron equipment on the truck install.3 points
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Negative,Brother. As long as the AT on the tracked item is within a cell signal, your "Find My" app will give you a location - doesn't matter how far away you are. For example, I departed the Good 'Ol USofA last Thursday for a 26+hour series of flights to the Middle East. My lay over in Frankfurt for my final leg on Lufthansa was tight. My checked bag didn't make it on board. On arrival to my destination, I brought up the app and took this screenshot... I labeled this particular AT, "Art's Lost Gear" using the app. The smiley face is my bag in Frankfurt, note the "directions" block in lower left. 2,678 miles. Not bad. The "AirTag Not Reachable" popped up when I, just for the heck of it, selected "Play Sound." This function only works with a good signal when you're "close" to the AT - maybe within 50 feet or so. When within this distance the AT gives off an audible "ping" - granted you've got to have good hearing (unlike mine) to catch the ping, but its better than nothing. I tracked my bag as it was loaded into the next flight (lost contact when airborne) - but caught up to it 6 hours later when it landed here. Went to the airport, collected the bag - no worries, and peace of mind! We got the 4-pack from Amazon for $90. Strongly recommended for just about anything you own of value that you want to keep tabs on. Pets, baggage, generators, cold 6-pak, etc... HA!3 points
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Pete, are you sure that’s the Wonder Egg? Looks like a new trailer to me. Hardly 15 years old. JIm was a great guy. I remember him taking a bunch of us Oliver owners to dinner one night while he camped with us at Quartzsite. Humble and generous. Mike3 points
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Thanks! I installed a complete lithium system in my now sold Airstream based on advise from Nate. He is extremely knowledgeable re everything solar/lithium related, not just his opinion but based on regulations like NEC.3 points
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That's reasonable. I've got a set of Gorilla Lugs waiting for me to swap out - several of the original "sleeved" lugs have started slipping. I can still get them off, but its unnerving having the outer sleeve rotate about an eighth of a turn while removing them.2 points
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Here's a very thorough comparison of the Victron battery monitors from the aforementioned Nate Yarborough. I added a cellular router in our attic to use with an AppleTV. I had an unused Alexa Echo Dot, so I converted it to 12V and Velcro'd it to the back of the TV.2 points
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I ordered a set of (4) AT’s from Amazon and I too am interested on how well the AT will track a vehicle or a camper etc. We’ll be leaving our Oliver at Oliver Service for a few days next week having the Truma Aventa AC installed. I will leave an AT in the Oliver to get an idea of how well it tracks it location. I am also going to place an AT inside our new Honda 3200i run it for awhile and see if it will hold up under the heat of the internal engine compartment. Apple says ATs will operate up to 140 degrees. We’ll see its survives or cooks. I will report back my findings in the next several weeks. Patriot🇺🇸2 points
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Our 2014 LEII came outfitted with Michelin RIB's. When it came time to replace them I went with Hercules H-901 LT225/75R16. They are F/12 Commercial Light Truck All-Steel Belted. These are also available in a ST model if you are so inclined. I prepared this chart for a fellow Oliver owner several years ago to help him compare several different brands. Tire Comparisons.pdf2 points
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This is true, AirTags use Bluetooth and NFC to network with compatible Apple devices. The network of compatible Apple devices is massive so interaction is pretty likely in populated areas.2 points
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A few ideas to help you enjoy your awning as hundreds of other Oliver owners do. My 2021 had a choice of fabric with an upgrade for the Girard awning, the fabric is called Bravia, it’s similar to Sunbrella. It’s a breathable acrylic fabric. Not quite waterproof, but very water resistant. We sit under it in the rain and don’t get wet. The benefit is it is much cooler than the an acrylic vinyl that is standard, and the black color does not seem to radiate heat. I’m not sure this is an option on newer models. It’s costly but you can change the fabric out on your awning.. See this link for a previous discussion about awning fabrics and colors. Awnings We like to keep the awning open a foot or two on rainy nights when the rain is steady, and the wind mild. I often have that curb side window open over my bunk which lets in a cool breeze with the roof fan on. You can keep the awning out on in very mild wind by turning off the power. Just make sure you are nearby and paying close attention to rescue it if the wind picks up. I’ve never tried it, but you can also secure it with awning poles, but the same precautions should be followed. See this link for a discussion and testimonials. Awning Poles2 points
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Fifteen plus years ago when I bought our Yamaha generator to accompany us on our travels, I wanted a way to secure it in the basket. I had a vinyl covered cable with looped ends that perfectly fit around the generator and the basket twice. I secured the ends together with a puck lock. I now keep the lock on the top of the generator under the cover to protect it from road grime and the weather. It also makes it much easier to get to when I want to unlock it (about once a year to change the oil.) This has worked all these years as I still have the generator. Of course, it doesn't hurt that the generator weighs in at about 165 pounds, so it'll take a big ole girl to steal it.2 points
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Sorry, I didn't realize there was ever a BMV-712 that did not have built-in Bluetooth. At any rate they all do now. At present, the BMV monitors consist of products with BMV-7 in the model name. Below I list the various current models. hopefully this will assist you to be sure you choose the right one for your application and budget. Except for the BMV-700H they all have a voltage range of 6.5V – 95V and they all can handle 1 – 9999 Ah battery banks. The models below, except as noted, are without Bluetooth built-in and I collectively refer to them as the BMV-700 series. BMV-712 Smart (Bluetooth built-in, with Auxiliary input) This is Victron's latest model. BMV-702 (with Auxiliary input) BMV-702 (Black Face, with Auxiliary input) BMV-700 (This is the base model) BMV-700H (high voltage version - 60V – 385V) The **2 in the product name refers to the fact this product features a second input which can be programmed to measure the voltage (of a second battery, or battery temperature, or midpoint voltage.) I am starting from scratch installing a complete new system in our truck to run our Dometic CFX3 75DZ refrigerator. I didn’t particularly care whether it was Bluetooth or not, but I chose the BMV-712 Smart because it came with a shunt, which you have to have for any battery monitoring system (it is my understanding that a 500A/50mV shunt, fitted with a quick connect PCB is now part of every BMV-700 series monitor product package.) I actually find the BMV-712 Smart monitor to be quite attractive with its included separate front bezel for a square or round display appearance, a securing ring for rear mounting and screws for front mounting. So, if you are looking to update your existing system that has no decent monitoring capability (think Zamp) you will need to replace your solar charge controller. Also, if you think that it would be advantageous to have monitoring capability (it would) you’ll need a shunt and a way to monitor it. For monitoring, I’d chose one of the above models from the BMV-700 series. But, if you don’t want the expense and trouble of a large solar refit or just can’t go on living without Bluetooth capability, then you could just add a Victron SmartShunt, an all in one battery monitor, only without a display. Your phone acts as the display which connects via Bluetooth to the Victron Connect app so you can conveniently read out all monitored battery parameters, like state of charge, time to go, historical information and much more. Personally, I want to be able to glance at a wall mounted monitor and know everything I need to know. I don't want to have to pull out my phone, find the app, start the app... you know the drill. The SmartShunt is an alternative for a BMV-700 series battery monitor, especially for someone that desires less wiring. It is is equipped with Bluetooth, a VE.Direct port and a connection that can be used for all the same things the monitors can do.2 points
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Chris, I just posted about this earlier and posted the YouTube video. It is such a great video and so very helpful! Thank you for taking the time to make it.2 points
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Actually the process of installing an Ez-Flex is straight forward IF your splines are intact. If the splines are not intact, or if your trailer does not have them.... then you MUST either: Repair the splined flange hole by drilling out and heating to cherry. Then using a special metal cutting punch an hydraulically forcing the punch into the flange to create matching splines. A major PITA. Replace the tang and have a machine shop press in the splines. Easier than Option 1. But cost of welding and shop work is a consideration. Do a home remedy using a polimer machinable repair compound such as made by Metalink. Or use a ballpeen hammer to try to "tighten up" the flange. Spend three years like I did trying to figure out a better way to fix them. In which case you'll using all the bad words you know AND creating some more. The above options all have risks , costs, and time considerations. OR you could spend under $5 for two Hex Nut Capture Washers and have them welded in place. See BackofBeyond post and GJ responses over time if you want the details. This past summer, Our Houston to Alaska and back trip logged over 12,000 miles and the Hex Head Capture Washer fix worked worry free. Full disclosures: Every spring my bearing service now includes cleaning and recoating the two welds with sacrificial zinc spray paint. So Option 5 is not totally maintenance free. But I think I can handle it. GJ2 points
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At the Circuit of the Americas Formula 1 race in 2019 we were camped next to a group from Finland. They were playing a game called MoLLKY throughout the weekend. It appears to be the same game as Skittle Scatter. They were a fun group. Finns are supposed to be the happiest people in the world. If most are like our neighbors, it's no wonder. They were drinking vodka with breakfast and chain- smoking cigarettes like there's no tomorrow. They had reason to celebrate. Their Finnish driver, Valtteri Bottas, won the race for the Mercedes team that weekend. We were in a friend's diesel pusher and had a cornhole game on board. With the limited storage on the Olivers, the MoLLKY/Skittle Scatter game is a lot easier to pack. We have one too.2 points
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There was a product called LowPro LockDown that was built for the Honda EU2000i, but it is no longer available. This one is similar. https://www.etsy.com/listing/1253698861/generator-lock-security-low-profile Mossey2 points
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😁I am the wife. I'd be happy to give lessons on a microwave-free life, but many are disinterested. I rarely use my home microwave, so it is easy for me. Back in 2008, my husband really wanted the convection microwave, (I didn't), so we got it. It eventually died, probably from lack of use... Since we almost never h ad power, the microwave was useless. We now enjoy a little pantry cabinet created from the microwave cabinet. Everyone's needs and wants are different. Our trailers can accommodate them, with whatever accessories buy. Our lifestyles, and camping styles, are different, but we can all work together on solutions.2 points
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We love that park and we are looking forward to taking our new Ollie down there. It was not a good fit for a 30’ Airstream with a 22’ truck! Shrimp looks good too! Brian2 points
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Hey Brian, with our son and family in Durango we have a strong pull to Colorado in addition to the mountains, weather and scenery! We also like Tennessee and will be camping there next month. Ouray is quite a place…. Mike2 points
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I explained my lack of understand of electricity in this earlier thread. Long story short, I am an e-dummy. But yet, I persevere. Using ChatAI Q - How long would it take for 400 watt solar panels to recharge 390 amp hour battery A - To calculate how long it would take for a 400-watt solar panel to recharge a 390-ampere hour (Ah) battery, we need to take into account a few factors, such as the efficiency of the solar panel, the weather conditions, and the charging controller used. Assuming a charging efficiency of around 80%, which is a reasonable estimate for most solar panels, we can calculate the charging time using the following formula: Charging time = Battery capacity (Ah) / (Solar panel power (W) x Charging efficiency) Plugging in the values, we get: Charging time = 390 Ah / (400 W x 0.8) = 1.22 hours Therefore, it would take approximately 1.22 hours, or 73 minutes, for a 400-watt solar panel to fully recharge a 390 Ah battery, assuming optimal conditions and a charging efficiency of 80%. However, in real-world situations, the actual charging time may vary depending on factors such as the weather, the angle and orientation of the solar panel, and the state of charge of the battery.1 point
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There have been a number of owners that have taken that seal off and left it off primarily due to having difficulty in cleaning the area on the roof behind it. Obviously, if you remove and then don't replace it, there might be a fair amount of water that will run down the side of the trailer when it rains. This just might obviate the use of the awning during a shower. For what its worth - I've still got the original seal up there, have not had difficulty keeping the roof behind it clean and have enjoyed a few beverages while sitting under my awning during a light rain. Bill1 point
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Unless you have FLA batteries, you’re putting an additional 160 pounds on the already heavy side. The floor will easily hold up the weight.1 point
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The rate of charge going into the battery is dependent on the amps available. The best that 340 watts of solar can do is about 25 amps. The onboard charger is 45-150 amps depending on the type you have.1 point
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The value was reduced to 110 ft-lbs GJ, thanks to your previous communications to Oliver. See link. Wheel Torque 2023 That snip from my older post was taken out of context. It was a direct quote from the 2021 manual. I personally have been running 100 ft-lbs since Day 1 with never a loose wheel nut.1 point
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Art, I cleaned and used industrial double-sided tape on the battery surfaces. Charlie.1 point
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LeBill, I read somewhere that rubbing alcohol will clean sap. We went out west last summer and a few spots.. I didn’t have rubbing alcohol so I used hand sanitizer it’s 70% alcohol,put it on let stand for a few minutes. Washed off with water..worked real good..Check the Girard manual too… good luck and H@ppy camping…1 point
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A concern I had with the use of Air Tags is would heat from running the gen have an impact on the AT performance? It appears Air Tags are ok from -4 up to 140 degree mark. Naturally you would not want the AT secured and hidden around the much hotter exhaust end of the gen. Air Tags are not considered anti-theft, merely a tracking device if an item should grow legs 🏃🏽. I don’t see us leaving our Ollie without our gen secured and out of sight. On the other hand, at $30 per AT with no monitoring fee this seems like a reasonable way to track items of high theft value. There is an easy hack to disable the (speaker) pinging feature of the AT so that the thief will not hear the ping. This audible pinging sound starts after 72 hr window has closed after the tracked item has gone missing. Even Mr. Magnus woof 🐕 as @MAX Burner mentioned. 😄 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0932QJ2JZ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BZHLR988/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1 https://support.apple.com/kb/SP840?locale=en_US Patriot🇺🇸1 point
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In our experience of 15 years with the ollie, using solar as our primary choice of charging, but using a genset when we have a string of crappy days, I'll offer this: We use the generator (in our case, 2008 Elite I with only two agm 105 ah 12v batteries) in the morning hours, when most depleted, so the genset is charging in "boost" or "bulk"mode, most efficient for the gas running the generator. Once the on-board controller throttles back to "absorption", and definitely if we take a walk and its in "float", if weather is halfway decent, we shut down the generator and let the silent and efficient solar panels finish the job. The next modes step down, and solar works fine. Actually, better than a genset, at low amp charging. (Side note: if we have to charge a tool battery or something else, we'll do that while the generator is running.) This has worked extremely well for us. A few notes: we have no microwave. We have no inverter. We camp, not rv. We do have an electric dc fridge. But, the principles would be the same. If you use a lot more amps (microwave, toaster oven, electric coffee pot, etc) you may need to run a generator at night, for a bit, as well, even with lithium. The cool thing about lithium batteries is that they actually "like" the middle charge range. Agms want to be topped off every day. Lithium doesn't need that. You'll find your sweet spots, whichever batteries you have. With agms, I try to not go below +/- 75% charge, as I know that extends the life of my (arguably expensive) batteries. With lithium, I'd be ok going down to ten or 15 per cent , but I'd try to keep them in the mid range (30 to 85)1 point
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Welcome to the Oliver family. Sorry we are currently in Maryland assisting with birthing of Gotland lambs.1 point
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Welcome! We're in NC, planning to camp in TN, GA, and SC in April & May! Probably head to Mt. Pisgah NC on the Blue Ridge Parkway in June!1 point
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If that is all that happen your good. Job done! I’m a old school type of guy and don’t mind inspecting or repacking the bearings. I always feel the hubs at stops to make sure they are not getting hot witch can be a sign of a potential problem. Safe Travels1 point
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Just completed a 2600-mile adventure from San Antonio to Sedona, AZ to the Gila Wilderness, NM. Stayed 6 nights at Rancho Sedona RV Park in Sedona. Pricey, but convenient! Loved the hiking but crazy busy especially on the weekend. The highlight was actually the Gila Wilderness where we enjoyed a quiet, dark, and unplugged stay. Stayed at Gila Hot Springs 4 nights. Saw multiple Ollies in the wild on I-10. On 25 Oct, we saw two Ollies in West Texas while traveling westbound. One was headed east and the other we caught up with heading west. We then saw the same(?) Ollie (TN plates) heading west in AZ on the 26th after staying the night in Demming, NM. Above: West Fork of Oak Creek Trail, Sedona, AZ Above: Devil's Bridge, Sedona, AZ Above: Gila Hot Springs, NM Above: Cooking breakfast in Gila Hot Springs, NM Above: The Gila River making its way to the Gulf of California. Not a human structure in sight!1 point
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Oooooo.. Just got to be some nice fish in that stream in CMSP, Oregon! Very nice! Bill1 point
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Here’s our favorite campsite at COE Bandit’s Roost campground Wilkesboro, NC, site # 28. This site is hard to get, someone must have canceled, allowing us to camp on it earlier this week. It’s been 70’s during the day and upper 40’s at night. The Blue Ridge Parkway is not too far away for a day drive, too. 🙂 Blue Ridge Parkway NC1 point
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Mike and Carol, We live in TN but love CO. My wife and I met in Ouray on a 4x4 expedition. We have driven pretty much every major trail in that area and look to go back with the Oliver (as soon as we get it) and do some more high-altitude camping. Very nice pictures, keep it up. Safe travels! Brian1 point
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Things are much better for all when you leave out the middleman. Yes, he needs to make a living, but it shouldn't be at the expense of the manufacturer nor the buyer. Thank you, Oliver, for selling direct and having pride in your product.1 point
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I saw this video and thought about my Ollie (9'7") height. As with several responding owners, I too use a 10' ALL STOP and stand on my truck tailgate to visually verify what the obstruction height really is. I've seen several old bridges with a ten foot clearance signs. Yet the road to and from it has had several overlays...... but the sign condition obviously says it had not been changed in many decades. So knowing your actual flat land height is a good start. But knowing your ALL STOP and check height may be more useful. My motto is: 10' Clearance = STOP & CHECK Geronimo John1 point
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I use 10’ too. If it’s lower I’m going to get out and check. Some of those RV owners in the video don’t seem to have a clue. I can cut a little bit of slack to the rental truck drivers, but not the RV drivers.1 point
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I took my EII back to Oliver due to a non-working furnace, and had a few minor issues addressed. Other than the drive time to and from, (left the unit there) and the actual waiting for the time slot, I was extremely pleased with the service. Ritchie and his team took care of my issues. I doubt any other RV manufacturer would be as responsive. One thing that should be considered - for the premium price we pay for our Oliver's, top notch customer service should be a given, and I am pleased that is the case.1 point
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Buzzy, 1 - No, I actually never did use the furnace. Approximately 30% of the time I had shore power and I take a small ceramic electric heater. For the balance of the time I use a "Mr. Buddy" propane heater. I found it interesting that the interior temperature each morning would be 10 degrees warmer than the temp outside (if it was 35 outside then it would be 45 or 46 inside). Unless I'm on the road, I virtually always have the bathroom vent open, but during the night all other windows and the MaxAir are closed. No heat is on during the night. First thing in the morning I would normally get up "to take care of business", light the Mr. Buddy and then jump back into bed for about a half hour while things warmed up a bit. See #3 below for a bit more info on this. 2 - Yes, on balance I was extremely happy with the solar. There was a problem in that the IPN was wired incorrectly thus giving me some readings that were exactly backwards. But, once that was figured out, there were really no issues. Yes, I did use the microwave and a 1500 watt toaster oven. I also usually had the audio system on playing MP3's or books on CD and virtually every night I would watch a DVD movie. Note that during the day (from about 9am to 4pm) I was not in the camper and I normally do not use a lot of lights. Having said all that, it was rare for the batteries to not be at or very near 100% and the voltage never fell below 12.5 volts. 3 - I do not use the "automatic" switch over feature on the propane tanks. I leave the shut-off valve on the tank I'm not using in the off position. This way, when the first tank runs out of propane I know it (either the cooktop will not light, or the fridge "check" light comes on or the water heater will not light. Obviously, the most "dangerous" item of these three is the fridge. But I have an external temperature monitor for the fridge and freezer in addition to the "check" light on the fridge itself. Between these two I can easily see if there is a problem. Yes, I did run out of propane on the first tank. I believe that this occurred about mid-morning one day while I was out fishing. When I got back to the camper, indeed the check light was "on" the fridge and the freezer's temp was up to 15 degrees (normally it is between -3 and +10). First thing I did was to try lighting the cooktop - it didn't. Therefore, I simply went outside, opened the "porthole" in the tank cover, turned the tank leaver and opened the valve on the second tank. Back inside I lite the cooktop and checked the fridge - it was already fired up. For reference purposes, the first tank lasted about 6 weeks. I almost always have the fridge on "automatic", I don't really cook complicated meals on the stove and use the microwave to heat water for coffee/hot chocolate in the morning. Also, when I'm camped where grey water can be released on the ground, I use a solar shower and external shower tent. This saves propane and both fresh water tank and grey water tank capacity. Even in the rather remote places I camped I never worried about replacing the empty propane tank. Since I moved camp every 4 to 5 days on average I usually passed a number of gas stations or went through a small town of some sort that had either tank exchange or a propane dealer. Having said that - I never did run out of propane on the second tank. I'm sure that it doesn't have much left in it, but, I had 3 full tanks at home and didn't really want to get another filled. 4 - I have only the WiFi Ranger. It worked great until about half way through the trip. Mind you, most of the time I was in locations that didn't have either cell or WiFi service. When in West Yellowstone the Ranger simply quit working - even two factory resets didn't get it going again. All lights on the Ranger show it is working, but, my tablet doesn't show the Ranger as transmitting a WiFi signal. So, Twist is back at the Mothership and Tommy is looking into the cause of the problem. When the Ranger did work I felt a bit guilty being able to get a strong WiFi signal and transmission rates while others camped near me were complaining about the lack of service and bandwidth. 5 - Yes, as I mentioned above, about 70% of my trip was off the grid and there was no electric, sewer or campsite water hookup. A couple of times (Ring Lake outside Dubois and Dead Indian north of Cody) there wasn't water directly available in the camp ground but even each of these had water (non-potable) via either a stream or a lake. I do carry an 8 gallon water container in the bed of the truck and on several occasions I needed to use it to replenish the fresh water tank in Twist. I can tell you that it works like a charm. Knowing that Ollie is your first camper, I also know that you have probably never experienced the "joy" of trying to pour water into the fresh water tank of a typical RV. Three times I had fellow campers watching me as I "magically" got the fresh water into Twist without working up a sweat! I never did have to get the water directly from the lake or stream, but, it sure is nice knowing that you can if necessary. Hope that answers your questions - if you have more, please feel free to shoot or shout. Bill1 point
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Everyone - Thanks for the comments - glad you enjoyed it. Randy - the orange Harbor Freight suction cup is used for hanging my fishing waders out to dry. It really works great and the orange reminds me to take it off prior to moving. The sticker on the back is a Yeti carrying a fly rod - a bit of a self portrait. Bill - That "brown" trout is actually a nice Brook Trout who lives in prime Grizzly bear territory. Bear spray and a sidearm were always at the ready! Trumpetguy - Yes, Brevard really does like dogs and beer, or, is that beer and dogs? Anyway, if you thought it was hot and steamy here you should live in Florida? Seriously, my wife didn't exactly appreciate me telling her about 10% humidity and 75 degree daytime high temps. But, someone just had to do it! Hopefully, someday, I'll be around while you are here so we can share a tonic or two. Bill1 point
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