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We camp mostly in public campgrounds. National Parks are generally the most restrictive, size wise. Most have some sites that accommodate big rigs but an Elite II size camper can fit in most any site. State Parks vary but usually have larger sites. COE and USFS campgrounds also vary, the newer ones can fit about anything, but some of the older or more remote campgrounds can be restrictive. It’s not just the size of the campsite to consider but also maneuvering truck and trailer during the back in. There have been a number of times that the site was just long enough for our Oliver, but backing it in proved to be challenging due to the narrow road or obstacles. I watched a guy trying to back in a trailer, probably 28’ or so, into a spot at a Tennessee State Park and it took him a couple of hours. He tried everything, to include going around the loop several times to change his angle and also going the wrong way to see if that would work. His frustration was evident. Mike

Hi Dennis, We were also on the attack concerning a wet bath but actually don't mind it at all now. It does add to the moisture content inside the trailer, especially on rainy days, and drying the towels outside when you can helps a great deal. We were in a Casita for 2 years (full timers) and really, really appreciate the added room inside of our Elite II. We don't do the National Parks much ( crowds) but for the most part it has been very rare to find a spot too small. As Mike mentioned, maneuverability is important and we also have been in spots and had to disconnect to park alongside or in front of the trailer. So, going from the Casita to the Oliver leads us to believe we're inside a mansion every time we go inside. FWIW, IMO, if you think it's a little small and you really don't want the wet bath, you'll probably be unsatisfied with the Oliver. For us it the Cadillac of fiberglass and the service from Oliver is the best there is so we're as happy as we can be. You might consider renting a bigger rig and see how you like it before making a costly mistake. Another point is resale of a "stickie" vs fiberglass. Best of luck with your decision and retired life, John

After 4 years of camping and towing with our Elite II, I wouldn’t want to be towing anything any longer than 25’. The Oliver size gives a lot more freedom for travel overall and is still very well equipped and comfortable. And it’s not just about campground site choices, although that is a big factor, both for site options and cost at campgrounds. Longer/bigger spaces cost more at most campgrounds. It’s also taking into consideration things like getting in and out of gas stations, parking spaces at restaurants and other roadside stops and attractions, very narrow construction zones, etc. We have even encountered roads with length limits because of tight corner switchbacks on steep climbs. The Elite II is a nice comfortable compact trailer that is short enough, narrow enough and low enough to avoid most of the common obstacles you will encounter on the road like low clearance bridges, tunnels, etc. The Zion Mt. Carmel Tunnel in Utah is one example that we drove through. There is a 7’ 10” width limit and a 11’ 4” height limit. Anything over a combined length limit of 50’ for tow vehicle/trailer combinations is completely prohibited in the tunnel. Anything much bigger than towing an Elite II and you have to arrange (and pay for) the park rangers to allow special access with traffic temporarily changed to one direction only instead of two way traffic so larger vehicles can fit through the tunnel. My wife and I are both retired and we do extended trips of 4 to 5 weeks on the road and we are very comfortable in the Ollie. And we added a shower curtain with 3M command hooks so it gives us a “dry bath” setup. The shower curtain can be easily removed to take outside to dry.

That's where I thought we'd end up, having friends with both 17 and 21 Escape trailers. Which reminds me; we're still on the list to reserve one of the 23s! They're just now only making the second prototype, with at least one more to go before making 10 field trial units. Then production. Early last year I was expecting production in late '22, but now I'd bet late '23 might be even optimistic. And then there are the hundreds of people already on the wait list to place orders. Seeing what they're doing with the shower makes it not only tiny, but awkward to get to the bed, and for a 23, it seems like it will be crowded inside. Until I saw the Oliver, I didn't realize how open it makes a trailer feel having the bathroom across one end of the trailer! I'm so glad we ended up ordering the Oliver! Good luck in whatever you choose, @dennis

dennis - I too thought that the wet bath in the Oliver would be a show stopper for me. But, for the first time in recent memory 😁, I was completely wrong. Given the amount of time I spend in the bath versus the value of that same square footage used elsewhere for the rest of the day and the alternatives that are available for bathing, it really is a no-brainer (for me). It is amazing just how simple it is to "dry" the wet bath after showering and then I've got a "clean" shower too. If your travel plans include the western US then anything over that 25 foot mark becomes reasonably restrictive. Even here in the eastern US I believe that you will find both camping and traveling (towing) an RV over 25 feet to be much more taxing and generally less enjoyable. But, only you can make this decision. And, it depends on how and where you like to travel and camp. Bill

I have pulled into CG late (traveling, not 'camping') , and have the Ranger say we are mostly full. Look at the LE2 and say but we got a small site that you will fit into. Enjoy your evening...

As for the wet bath, it was a big concern of mine as well. I won't lie, I miss the big shower and dry bath in our last fifth wheel. Luxury. Being 6' myself, washing my hair in the Ollie requires bending over, which I don't love. However, so far the other Ollie advantages - including its compact size, quality, and solar/lithium - have outweighed the shower drawbacks. Last summer we got the last available site in a COE campground. It was designated as a tent/pop-up site but we fit just fine. This year we're staying in a state park we couldn't fit in before, even with our 27' travel trailer.

It really depends on your camping style. We love the size of the Oliver, especially the width which allows us to keep in at our house, we have a narrow driveway so the width was something we really wanted to stay 7’ or less. We spend most of our time outside and also have a pop up screen room which gives us added space even if it’s raining (it has side panels that can be attached). As for the wet bath, its actually quite large for a wet bath and with the curtain you can keep the half with the toilet area dry when showering. I do think if you are contemplating size and already feel that the Oliver may be too small and you are uncertain about a wet bath then I suggest renting a 25ft camper and a smaller camper and see how you feel in it. Try a wet and dry bath. It’s a big purchase and you certainly don’t want buyers remorse. If you are set on a dry bath and still want fiberglass look at the Bigfoots and Escape is coming out with a new 23 that has twin bed option and a dry bath. We love our Oliver and I don’t believe you can beat the quality and customer service but everyone’s likes/needs/wants are different, it’s just finding what’s is the right fit for you. Good luck with whatever you decide.

We also toiled over this topic for several years. We struggled with the "need" of more room inside and also the "need" to bring toys along. We were seriously considering a 25' ATC toy hauler to serve all those needs. Well long story short we concluded with time that where we really wanted to camp was more important than both the need to bring too much stuff along and also the need for extra living space. I'm not necessarily concerned with the smallish interior because we are traveling to enjoy the outside that we are traveling to. We will mostly just sleep in the camper and clean up. But the rest is outside or away from the camper and that's our priority. I don't have to worry about if we'll fit or can we get their with the rig. So to boil it down, where do you want to spend your time camping? Make sure your choice serves that primary purpose first. For our plans the Ollie is by far the best choice.

Don’t overlook the issue of maneuverability and width when visiting National Park campgrounds. I speak from experience of having gone into some campgrounds where the 8.5’ width and length of the other trailer I was considering (Bigfoot 25b25T) would have been a burden. The fact that the Ollie is 7’ wide and the wheels track close to that of the Tow Vehicle make for a very “sneaky” approach (as well as retreat if the need arises to back out of a twisty and narrow campground road). Sure, there are times I wish I had more room inside but ONLY when I am sitting inside the trailer. When towing down the road and finding a campsite I have never regretted the Oliver. I have camped in areas where I am certain I would not have been able to visit in the bigfoot. The right trailer for you is the one that gets you out camping. Best wishes in your decision

@dennis Glad you got to tour an LEll! In the summer of 2021 we traveled from our home in Western NC to Gulf Shores Alabama, then back home to restock. We then left on a trip to New England and camped in NY, NH, Vt, and Me reserving campgrounds along our route. In total we visited 16 states and 22 CG’s and were never turned away do to the size/length of our Oliver. So it really depends on what your travel and camping needs are going to be. We are totally fine with the wet bath vs a dry bath. Based on our experience and we are not experts by any stretch, the Oliver LEll works great for our needs. And as @johnwen mentioned the resale of an Oliver vs a stick built is worthy of consideration. All the best in your decision, Patriot 🇺🇸

But, do you still have an 8-Track recorder? If not, and you have a nostalgic itch for one, I can make you a hell of a deal. I’m also willing to let my Sony Betamax go and I’ll even throw in the stack loader that went with it. Oh, and brand new IBM Selectric.

The previous owner of my Ollie showed me the following storage procedure after he had a problem with the Ollie lights being on: Costs nothing. If you look at where the Oliver fiberglass hull is near the trailer's tongue, you will see there is a gap between the fiberglass and the trailer frame. This gap is big enough for the trailer plugs to fit up into and out of the weather. I have never had a problem with moisture or rain water storing it this way.

We had an Escape owner stop and look at our Oiver on his way home to Canada. Back then there was a concern about importing to Canada ( since solved). He asked if I would like to see his. After the Oliver it felt claustrophobic to me, but what really got me was the table. It was as shaky as my mother's old wooden ironing board. If the first thing you saw was that quality??

We purchased the shower curtain upgrade from Oliver. It works fine, although the curtain supplied is thin vinyl, which started to tear before we got home to Idaho from Tennessee. It can be replaced with a fabric curtain at some point. Yes, the bath is small. I am 6'0" and have grazed my head on the overhead bath fan when showering, as the bathroom floor is higher than the floor in the main cabin, limiting bath headroom. That is one of the tradeoffs. Yet, we remain pleased with our choice of the Elite II based, in part, on the size being "just right" for us, for the same reasons detailed by other posters above, including ease of towing, parking, fitting into some campsites, storage, etc.

Maybe I got carried away…. I decided at six years old the burner assembly was probably not safe to reuse, so I just gutted it. The steel mount flange would not come off without the hacksaw. Does anyone need a spare control board, main PCB unit, gas regulator, jet or sensors? Ignitor? Door, hinges or freezer door? It really is so VERY damned difficult to remove this fridge for servicing, and I heard that there are no replacement fridges available anyway(!!), that if you have to get to any part that is *** hidden *** from the outside access openings, you might as well just plan on scrapping the unit. As I plan to do. John Davies Spokane WA

My wife and I recently toured the LE2 near in Tampa. We are a year out from retirement and getting serious about purchasing something for multiple extended trips of a month or so per year. We loved the trailer and the Oliver staff. Except for the dry bath. (I know...That is another topic all to itself...) We have convinced ourselves the we "need" the next size up from LE2 to get what we want. Which leaves me with a puzzle. I'm convinced that where we are going (mostly national parks or similar) the bigger our footprint, the more limited our options when picking a park, a campground or the individual site within. But I think it's a smooth curve. Backpack is best. Car with a tent is next. Then teardrop. Etcetera, all the way up. Each step eliminates some options the previous setup offered. But my son thinks I'm naïve. He has trailering friends who advise that 25' is a magic number. South of it, most of the National Park System is your oyster. Anything bigger and you are suddenly limited to the Walmart-parking-lot in the largest and most sterile campgrounds (assuming they let you in the park at all). From all I've read, I'm pretty confident I'm right. But I was wondering if anyone here had an "expert" opinion. Thanks for your time. This is a great forum. (I've been "lurking" for quite some time 🙂 )

That video is for an older analog version, not the new digital Intelligent one. The old one does indeed require lots of work. The new one needs a single hole in the fridge I think. Not counting the holes to mount the display, I am going to put mine under the microwave. John Davies Spokane WA

That is why I was going to make a drop-in tray which would be very easy to remove to clean up. It would probably need a rubber pad on top, like the cabinets. Any junk down deep comes out with a shop vac. If I can’t locate suitable soft storage bins, I can always use small duffles or stuff sacks. I have the basics for woodwork, I can rip and route and drill press, but the cuts don’t always go exactly where I planned. John Davies Spokane WA

I use the one like Frank C has near the top of this thread. When traveling we usually allow plenty of time and dont mind taking the wrong turn somewhere. After all we are exploring this great country so many times it isnt really a wrong turn so much as going a different way...lol

We've had a few double pane windows fog. We did not replace them. We took our trailer to Suncoast Designs in Hudson, and they pulled the offending windows, resealed, and reinstalled. Much more economical than window replacement. (I checked.) There are companies that do similar work around the country. Mind you, my trailer is 15 years old next month. Fogging occurred on the sunny side windows a couple years ago, at over 100k of travel. I do think the double/thermal pane windows make a difference. I have triple glass at sticks and bricks home, in Florida.

I was thinking JB weld and Super glue... LOL Just kidding. Right call on the cut out vs. trailer disassembly. GJ

Have to agree. The 54 Chevy and 67 Firebird have them. In my truck they would be a piece of heaven

I want wing windows back.

That is brilliant, thank you, I think my wife will go for that over a drawer. John Davies Spokane WA

I guess at this stage I would recommend shoe cubby. That seems like an option with lots of uses, and you could always convert to a drawer in the future if you feel the space would be more useful.

Well, I took on the challenge of replacing the bearings and races in my 2021 Elite I. It was actually not bad at all. Took a couple of hours on the first wheel because I was careful to check and double check each step to make sure things were correct. . Second went much faster. The original set of bearings appeared fine and had “China” imprinted on them but don’t know enough to comment on their quality. I used Timken products all the way around along with Redline CV-2 grease. Repacks will apparently be even quicker since the races aren’t removed and replaced. Anyway, definitely a DIY project if you’re physically able.

It depends where you are. Out west a lot of the forested national park campgrounds were built when trailers were small and 25 feet is probably a pretty good top number. Above that your choices will be limited. Different for dry camping in the desert and commercial campgrounds.

Isotherm Intelligent Temperature Control It sounds very interesting, I just ordered one. Free shipping and no Washington sales tax (9%) from that vendor, woohoo. I don’t know if Oliver installs these on the 2023 hulls, any comments? Up to 25% energy savings solely due to compressor efficiency gains Up to 40% energy savings with combined effect of cold energy surplus stored in food / drinks Basically it controls compressor speed and it will “supercool” the food when a surplus of energy is available (solar) and it idles the rpm way down or off when the batteries take over the load. Plus you don’t have to open the door to make changes, which always dumps cold air out onto your toes. I can see myself keeping some extra big bottles of water or soda in there for more thermal mass…. LOTS of info here including docs and a video https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?id=4161337 It looks quite nice and the installation is very simple, the hardest part is drilling 1” holes to make the flush mount opening. John Davies Spokane WA

I know this doesn't solve your internet needs, but we've been using and aerial for television at home for over 10 years. At our new place we are about 35 miles east of Indianapolis and are able to get around 40 stations. Many of those are high def, but of course any older programming is in lower def. regardless. Programs like NFL, Nascar, PGA, local and national news come in with spectacular clarity. The Menards in Avon, OH has the antenna we use in stock if you are ever interested in making the jump. https://www.menards.com/main/electrical/electronics/antennas/televes-dat-boss-attic-outdoor-tv-antenna/149884/p-1642874256695741-c-1454940301502.htm?tid=5189128745463378719&ipos=18

We wished we had a good Oklahoma road atlas last November when Google Maps took us on a wild goose chase, on gravel roads, trying to find a Harvest Host site outside Oklahoma City. We now plan to buy a good paper road atlas, so we can double-check questionable Google Maps instructions.

Great tip! I wish I had thought of that clever trick before I spent $10 on an Optronics plug protector, and an hour+ modifying and mounting it!

I like the double pane windows for insulation and noise reduction. I have had to replace one window due to fogging so far after 4 years of ownership. It was the small bathroom window. A fairly straightforward DIY replacement if you’re handy with tools/home remodeling projects.

That's exactly what I was thinking when John posted this. I haven't even picked up my trailer yet and considering yanking the fridge! Slow down there, Steve!!

My wife would nix the "shoe cubby" idea, calling it a "dust catcher" that would be hard to clean. To maintain marital harmony, I would find myself doing the extra framing for another 6" Oliver drawer. She would point out that the drawer makes more of its contents accessible. With the cubby, anything more than 12" behind the front vertical plane of the fridge is realistically inaccessible down at floor level, unless it is on a "pull-out." The 6" Oliver drawer could also look like a factory installation, if done carefully. But, I am a woodworker, with a cabinet-grade Sawstop, router table, planer, etc. The framing would be a fun winter project for me. For many others, maybe not so much.

BTW, I decided to use the microwave ventilation slots to vent the fridge, I am going to drill a bunch of big holes directly behind the microwave and down into the fridge cavity. I haven’t quite figured out the lower vents yet, but the two big outside holes in the hull will be sealed up tight! No more dust or water entry! John Davies Spokane WA

Ha! You already offered the Betamax player back when I mentioned that our wedding was videotaped on that format.Still don't want it. 😉 I had a Craig combination AM/FM/ 8-track recorder back in high school and college. I made a few bucks converting records into tapes for friends. That's also when I discovered I could take one of the housings apart, make a loop just the right length, and make it play backwards for a few seconds. A bunch of us spent way too much time perfecting saying our name backwards so that when the loop was flipped, it sounded correct forward. 🙃 Electric typewriters are for girls... ::ducksandrunsforcover::

I agree with the Headlight Revolution suggestion. I have done considerable research relative to upgrading (legally) the headlights on my 2018 F250 and found the HR replacement assemblies to be the best deal out there. It'll cost about $1K to replace both headlights when I do it, but it's one-and-done! It's a PITA to replace bulbs in these trucks so you might as well replace the whole assembly vice going to bulb replacement only to find out at annual inspection time, they're illegal.

I finally got a response to my ticket from 10/20/22 yesterday. The request for a replacement decal was denied with a polite note explaining that the tire pressure on the trailer at time of production met the production tire specifications. They recommend I consult OEM tire manufacturers specifications for the loaded trailer weight. Which is exactly what many of us have already done, and the reason I have been running 50 psi since Delivery Day. The ticket was closed.

If you check the specs, the tf130 and isotherm cruise 130 are pretty much identical dimensions. Interior layouts, including the low drawer, which i love, are the same The tf 130 is made for land/trucks, so no coast guard approval. No rvia approval. Less stainless, probably more galvanized. As we own a very early trailer, we can do as we wish, and did the install ourselves. Oliver can't. They have to meet rvia standards. I've seen both, and the isotherm model has better door insulation.

I switched to T-mobile a few months back as I was getting frustrated with spectrum reliability. It worked well for the first few months but the last month has been a lot of bad video call experiences saying internet is unstable. Luckily I only paused my service from spectrum. So turned that back on and going to shut down T-mobile. Spectrum is only running me $80 a month versus T-mobile’s $50 so not a big difference. Both give me about the same up with spectrum a bit better. Down spectrum is way better at 300 mbps down versus T-mobile 60 mbpds.

John, pretty sure this is the same fridge/freezer that now comes with the 2023 trailers….if it is maybe the factory can send you some pics?

Sometimes with interesting results!! We were using a Garmin to get to Twin Falls, Idaho a few years back, and it tried taking us across the service road across the Snake River at Shoshone Falls! But 1), it isn't public, and 2), it doesn't go all the way across! But the interesting part was that we ended up going across BLM land on the north side, where Evel Knievel was supposed to land on his ill-fated rocket bike. You can see the launch ramp across the river. We still have a land line, answering machine, film camera, mechanical typewriter, car with a carburetor and manual shift, and probably some 8-track tapes stuck in a box somewhere. 🤪

John ,et. al. I bought two of the suggest elbows and they are little bit of a tight fit getting by the water line once past the line everything slid in easily. The only problems I had was the vent tube from the defuser under the bed was a couple of inches short to make it to the rear outfit with the elbows on. I have to get a replace the tube and make it about 4-6 inches long. I hooked everything up above the access panels and then just slid them in place. This is a picture before I slid it in.

So totally agree... We also have a corded phone in the home office. The corded phone is the only one that usually works during a power outage. The answering machine is special for us too. There are a lot of spots around us without cell coverage and the corded phone with answering gives us our needed coverages being a mile in the woods...

30 years of land navigation in the army, usually with at 1:50,000 folded map sheet, trained my brain to be comfortable with a paper map. I like my GPS’s for turn by turn directions, but we also carry a big atlas with us for planning and exploring alternate routes. Mike

The General Manager of Houghton responded to my questions with the following: Thanks for reaching out with your queries. To answer your questions regarding the Houghton A3400 and A2801: 1 – There is no option or modification available to collect condensate and direct it to an internal drain. 2 - There is no option for stopping the inside fan when the compressor has stopped in Cooling mode. We do this very deliberately to maintain air flow over the return air temperature sensor. This ensures that the unit will respond appropriately to the cabin temperature. If the fan is stopped then the unit is no longer sensing the true air temperature of the living space and may not turn on again until the space is unacceptably hot. We have used this arrangement in the Australian climate for many years. Our northern states are hot and tropical, similar to Florida, and our units have excellent performance in these conditions. However, we are aware that this arrangement is not typically what you encounter in the USA market. I am very interested in better understanding your concerns about the inside fan remaining on once the compressor has stopped. Can you help me to understand the source of your discomfort?

I guess there are pro’s and con’s for the never-lubes. Seems like a good thing, not to have to worry about repacking all the time. I have my bearings repacked and brakes checked every spring before the rally. 7 years and still original bearings. We do 10-15,000 miles a year. Mike

A word of caution. A jumper wire can turn on the lights. But, as was done at the Rally, the bright LED lights of the Ollie can be offensive to other campers. So maybe should only be done at an Airstream Rally to outshine them?

I recently posted about how Berts RV Service fixed my Truma AquaGo. When Bert was finished was finished, he wanted to hook a manometer to the propane line. If there are no leaks, the pressure should remain constant. He tried hooking it up to the stove, but the connection did not fit. I suggested he remove the access panel for the fridge since there is a propane connection there. He did that, and although he did not find a fitting he could connect the manometer to, he did discover something. When he pulled off the access panel and reached in he said “The drain tube is not installed correctly.” I learned is that the fridge has a tube to drain condensation from the fridge. On the Oliver this drain comes thru the fiberglass just below the lower access panel, and protrudes about an inch. This is just to the left of the steps. He said the problem was that the drain tube did not have a P-trap. Even I know that every sink has a P-trap. A P-trap is designed to collect water, and the water prevents gases from going from the sewer to the sink. If the drain tube on an RV fridge lacks a P-trap then hot air from the outside will conduct heat into the fridge. The P-trap acts as a barrier, preventing the hot air from entering the fridge. We were able to quickly make a P-trap by anchoring the drain tube to other things in the compartment, in two places, with some cable ties. I did a google search for “rv fridge p-trap drain tube” and found that others agree with Bert. I have posted previously in this thread that our fridge struggles to maintain temperature in hot weather. Bert said that the P-trap will likely solve this problem. I asked Bert whether this P-trap needs winterizing in some way. He said no, the small amount of water will evaporate quickly, and that the tubing is flexible and could expand if needed. Bert showed me the fins at the back of the top shelf of the fridge, below the freezer. These fins are designed so that water that evaporates in the fridge will condense on the fins, and then drip into a drip tray. This drip tray leads into the drain tube. Bert suggested that before starting on a trip in hot weather I should “prime the pump” by pouring a little water into the drip tray, so that the water fills the P-trap. Sounds like a good idea.