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Yes, I have that map and have noted that there are some routes I could do, as you say while not wet (I always carry enough water and food to hunker down for something like a week when out on roads that could shut me down if wet even if I see no rain in the forecast). Looks like it would be fun to be able to poke around a bit on the other roads though. I've been up I think it's called "Behind the Reef" road a little ways from near Hanksville (the photo below is from that afternoon/evening venture) - there's some cool stuff around there and I've just barely scratched the surface. I've seen some cool photos looking toward Factory Butte from some overlook on the SE ege. Etc etc

I've been to Goblin Valley - definitely cool (see a few pics below, along with a shot of Little Wildhorse Canyon and a few from the very cool pre-Peuebloan Horseshoe Canyon pictographs across the highway and about 30 miles down a heavily washboarded road with a few intriguing sand drifts coming across for chuckles) - after a little memory refresh, the spot I was thinking of is often called "Moonscape Overlook" - see https://www.revesdailleurs.com/moonscape_factory_butte_en.html which looks like a cool spot to spend an evening. So many places to see, so little time!

NO, No, No! Think of it as a "dumb waiter" so that the pizza and beer delivery person can simply drop it off and you can access dinner and beverage directly from the interior. No more opening the door, no more running out into the rain for the essentials of life.😁

And...for being the 7000th member, you have won a free litter of kittens. Just let us know where to send them.

A moderator is not necessary (for just about anything according to my wife 😁). I simply get a copy of the picture and save it to my computer. I then go to my computer "picture" files, open that recently saved picture and click on "edit". Once my edit program opens with the picture, one of the options is to "rotate" the picture. I rotate it to the position I want and then left clock on save. Then it is back to the Forum and I click on the three dots (hamburger) in the upper right hand corner of the post - the same place you used to delete your original picture. Then all I do is click "choose files" to add the corrected picture to the original post and click on "save". Other than trying to remember to go back into my picture files every so often in order to clean out pictures that are not mine - it really isn't a big deal. Bill

For various reasons my camping season is off to a late start this year. Here is “Mouse” half treated with Rejex. The oily muck that got EVERYWHERE from a 80 km stretch of fresh chip sealed highway (in the rain) on the Cassiar Hwy in central British Columbia last fall took a great deal of hand scrubbing and swearing to remove. I used 409 degreaser and bar towels, followed up with 3M Adhesive cleaner to get the tar and crusty Wood Bison poop off. (They graze the grassy shoulders of the highways and leave their droppings in the road.) I had thoroughly washed the trailer with Dawn before putting it away, but the bottom part was still gross. Here are the towels presoaking so I can get them into the washer, I rinsed them four times before they got clean enough to put in the machine. The Stone Stomper worked great to keep the tailgate and hatch of the Land Cruiser clean, but it is not a miracle worker… I truly hate chip sealing. John Davies Spokane WA

I found the 1 lone fan under the cooling fins behind the top outside access panel (using a mirror), no switch. But, if need be (as in, fan too noisy), I see the where I can maybe install my own switch.

@MAG, thank you for sharing your question. You'll save others a lot of stress, in the future.

This is most excellent, if you want to understand why lithium batteries are so cool. "You have just sold your first-born into slavery, remortgaged the house, and bought yourself a lithium-ion battery! Now you want to know how to take care of your precious new purchase: How to best charge lithium-iron batteries, how to discharge them, and how to get the maximum life out of your lithium-ion batteries. This article will explain the do’s and don’ts." How to Find Happiness With LiFePO4 (Lithium-Ion) Batteries John Davies Spokane WA EDIT: That is a pdf that doesn't print well. I made a Pages doc out of it, that can be printed and added to your Ollie records, if you like. JD How to Find Happiness With LiFePO4 (Lithium-Ion) Batteries - Solacity .pages EDIT 05/16/23. Thanks to Jim and Francis for converting the article to a PDF: How to Find Happiness With LiFePO4 (Lithium-Ion) Batteries

An hour ago, we gained member number 7,000! Welcome to the board, @SusanJ. And thank you, to all the folks here who make this forum such a great place to learn and share.

Returned a few weeks ago from a trip into Utah again, this time hitting a few places that have been on my bucket list for years. Weather was not ideal but we made the best of it, great hikes and adventures with some photos. Thanks for looking. Boondocking in the San Rafael Reef Formation known as the Temple Mount, San Rafael Reef View looking southwest to the Henry Mountains and San Rafael Swell & Reef Trudi peeking out of Oliver Hike in Wild Horse Canyon, San Rafael Reef Head of Sinbad Pictograph panel, San Rafael Swell Another view of the same panel above San Rafael Reef canyon wall, land of the tortured stone More tortured stone from San Rafael The textures in some of these rock walls is amazing from centuries of weathered torture 😂 via hike in the Little Horse Canyon More rock walls from Little Horse Canyon Trudi hiking through the slot canyon section of Little Horse Canyon More slot canyon views from Little Horse Canyon A geologist dream scape I suppose, most slot canyon of the Little Horse The Rochester Panel Detail from the Rochester Panel

Or Amazon delivery drone...

Yeah, he went into it knowing that they had no low temp charge sensor, but he already had battery heat pad and battery temp sensor wired to his charge controller so that wasn't an issue to him. I'll be watching closely how they work out. Have good AGM's right now, but looking to upgrade to LiFePO4 and adding solar in the next year or so.

I just placed an order for the "Original Bow Buddy" that is like the 90 posted in my original post, but the vertical support is angled at 70 degrees toward the TV. (see photo attached). This should help push debris down toward the road. (and not back at the TV or oncoming traffic) The price was $760 (plus shipping), which makes it almost double the mud flap style rock guards. BUT because it stays mounted on the trailer, it was a huge plus that multiple tow vehicles can use it and takes a step out of trailer set up before a trip and storage after. Also justifying the extra cost is the better protection I'm expecting than traditional mud flaps. We take deliver of our LE in July, so it will be a few months before it can be tested. I will keep everyone updated on how it works out!

That is correct the Behind the Reef Road is sort of close to Hanksville in relative terms and spurs off the main road called Temple Mount Road. We did not have the time to travel the full length of BtRR but its my understanding it gets very 4WD further down. We took it as far as the Wild Horse Canyon trailhead which was no sweat for most vehicles. I would take a wild guess some of those photos you're referring to might have been from Goblin Valley State Park. We did not venture into this park but would like to someday.

My thoughts are yes, definitely. I suspect that in a few years RVs will be designed with lithium batteries located in inside compartments or under the floor like electric cars, vented to the inside. There will be no need to access them routinely…. It will be time to get rid of that sliding tray too. IMHO. John Davies Spokane WA

Thank you John, that answered several questions I had on my list to track down and a whole bunch more on top of that. Now the thread about venting the battery box is making sense as to why it should be considered important. From that article, it sounds like the battery box would be better off sealed to the outside, vented to the interior to be allowed to be maintained at the TT's interior temp (assuming it stays between 32-86F) Your Thoughts?

John, thanks for sharing. This is concise and very informative.

I'm not sure that's a fair comparison, but it's obviously a great price, for those who want an entry level solution. I think Will Prowse tore those down, and found a few flaws, like no low temp charging sensor in the bms. I'd Google it. Ok if you always camp in warm climates, maybe. With caveats. Renogy had a series of lifepo4 on sale this week, and I didn't post it, because it was only a 2000 cycle battety. I think older tech. $500 for 100 ah. Solid company. But you have to acknowledge what you're buying. Fwiw, I do think battery prices will likely continue to drop. As has solar. It's all a gamble, but if we ever swap to lifepo4, we'll go with a company with a warranty, like battleborn, or build our own. Just my opinion. We've certainly been known to take a risk for a price savings, and my opinions are subject to change with research.

Thank you, John 🙂

I learned that some Dometic RM2454 fridges have cooling fans located between the upper and lower coils, in an area that is completely inaccessible without removing the unit entirely. Jason in Service told me that they started receiving these units in mid-2017 (mine was delivered in May '17), and that previously there was NO Dometic fan installed. On those units Oliver added their own fan, positioned up high above the upper coils where it was easily reached, and I believe these fans also had an inside On/ Off switch. Yay! Good thinking. Last summer my fan started squealing when the outside air temperature got really high, and there was no way to shut off the nasty noise without killing power to the entire unit. It has no manual switch, rather it is activated by a an inline temp switch that is in the positive wire, near the fan itself. How very inconvenient for the owner.... The squeal went on long into darkness before the outside temp fell enough to shut it off. The Dometic Owners Manual and the Oliver Owners Manual wiring diagrams do NOT show the fan, but the diagram inside the backside of my fridge does; it is located on the far right behind the gas valve. The fan is labelled "Y". Here's how to disconnect power from the fan so you don't have to remove the whole unit. it takes about ten minutes if you are slow. If you are careful you don't need to power off the fridge, I did not bother. The electronic control box is covered by a square plastic cover. Remove the single Phillips screw at the top, use a magnetic screwdriver if you have one. Don't lose the screw. There are two spring loaded hooks at the 4:00 and 8:00 o'clock positions. Insert a thin flat bladed screwdriver into each slot, lever the handle gently away from the slot while pulling out on the cover. The hooks should release. Remove the cover. At the bottom of the circuit board you will see a row of wires. (In the pic they are numbered - that was my idea for when I disconnected them all in a previous project.) The bottom left terminal (J2) has a red 90 degree spade connector which is the fan power wire. Grab it carefully with fingers or a pair of pliers and pull it off the terminal. Secure it to the nearby harness with a nylon cable tie. You can mark the cover as I did with a silver Sharpie to help you remember how it comes off the next time. Also notice that there are TWO glass fuses (3 amp and 5 amp) which are visible in the pictures above and to the right of the J2 terminal They have translucent rubber covers to keep off moisture. It would be good idea to blow this whole area clean with compressed air if you have it. Reinstall the black cover and go get a beer. Video showing the fan wire with the fan operating. ... ... The fan noise is not too bad in this video since it isn't super hot. To get the fan to run, I opened the fridge inside door, turned the temp to Coldest, stuffed some paper towels in the upper vent and waited ten minutes. The fridge coils won't get hot enough with the electric heating element, you have to run the propane flame. Needless to say, it would be smart to keep your paper towels well AWAY from the right side of the coils where the burner exhaust comes up. Do NOT leave this unattended! Please do NOT set fire to your Ollie! You don't actually need to force the fan to run. Disconnecting the red wire will kill it, IF your circuit is like mine. Compare your wiring diagram first! If my fridge cools adequately without the fan I will leave it this way. If it struggles I will remove the two louvered covers on hot days to increase natural airflow. I will be able to test it by mid-summer. Maybe I will have to remove the fridge after all... John Davies Spokane WA

If inside electric is available then I would simply put the batteries on a smart charger (battery minder). Remember to go over to the Ollie every few weeks to make sure that you are still good on fluid levels in the batteries - of course this assumes that your batteries are flooded wet cell batteries. If they are AGM's then they take care of themselves regarding fluid. If you are doing the above then turning things like your propane/co2 detector off is not necessary - they don't really draw all that much current. However, if you decide to NOT use the smart charger then I'd take the fuse out of the propane/co2 detector Its located right behind the detector under the dinette seat), and disconnect (via the two main fuses) the rest of the 12 volt current in the Ollie. Bill

Wow incredible pictures-I love the pictographs and can hardly believe people deface them. We can't wait to return to Utah.

Yeah with one of those I don’t think you would have a problem. Understand too there are a couple of well maintained gravel roads through both the south end and north end of the Swell/Reef which can become impassable when wet but otherwise most vehicles can travel over with no problem although they can get a bit rough in parts. Your van would be fine on those major routes in the area. Some of the roads within the Swell are true 4WD though. I would recommend the National Geographic Trail map that cover the entire San Rafael area. Highly recommended.

Adding a few more from the trip mostly from Nine Mile Canyon in the Book Cliffs area. Stayed a couple of nights at the Nine Mile Ranch which is around 7,000 feet elevation and were told we were the first campers as they had just opened for the season. They do have cabins and bed & breakfast facilities here. Very nice people, seems to be well run but you wouldn't mistake it for a 5 Star facility, considerably more rustic than that. No cell service in here and it is NOT nine miles long, nor 9 miles from anything. No idea where the name came from. All BLM land interspersed with private ranch land and very undeveloped. There are no other camping facilities throughout the canyon and apparently pull off camping is discouraged however there are some gravel roads that intersect from the paved canyon road where boodocking is a possibility. The canyon road itself is smooth as a baby's butt, but go slow there are numerous large dips due to flash floods from adjoining creeks should anyone decide to go in here. Nine Mile Ranch camground View of the Nine Mile Canyon looking west Ancient Freemont Culture Village Petroglyph Detail of Book Cliffs geology and rock formations The Big Hunt The Big Bison petroglyph pictograph Larger view of pictograph above with more recent cowboy inclusions Known as the Owl petroglyph Wild Horse Canyon view Large group site in the San Rafael Reef area, not recommended during the weekends. Note the only facility are a few picnic tables and pit toilets. NO WATER anywhere within miles. Bring your own. Black Dragon Canyon Large Pictograph in Black Dragon Canyon Detail from above Another detail Little Horse Canyon in the slot Another long view of the Blue Mountains and San Rafael Swell

Beautiful photos and just love the title “enough tech talk - go camping”. 👍🏻😎 Thank you for sharing as we are reeeally looking forward to mid western travels.

Thanks everyone for the information and CalMark tips & information link.

I sure would have used this information IF it had been available when I purchased my CalMark. I doubt that they would have recommended anything different at the time even for the older covers such as mine. The original warranty on my cover was for 6 years - I'm now into my seventh year and the cover still shows no signs of wearing out. Bill

I spoke with Diana at Calmark regarding cleaning the Calmark cover and she sent this attached info to me. And yes we have the black streaks aka air pollution on our cover as well. She said not to place the cover in a washing machine as it will remove the chemicals or special additives that help with repelling water. I attached the tips and info which she emailed to me today. I hope this helps. 887450757_TipsandInfomationforyourCalMarkCover.pdf

We live not too far from the Southern Mattress family, so we decided to order our Ollie with only the provided foam cushions. We figured we could change to the mattress later if needed, but we've been comfortable with the cushions. My husband added a foam topper and I'm sleeping on just the cushions.

Oliver is using Tochta as their optional mattress supplier, replacing KTT. Apparently, KTT was having supply chain problems. We opted to have our LEII delivered in mid-February with the standard cushions. We wanted to try the cushions before deciding to upgrade to mattresses. When we were at Oliver to pickup Hull 990 we tried the Tochta mattresses in one of the showroom units. I believe Oliver is using 7 inch thick Utopia mattresses from Tochta. We decided to purchase 8" Utopia mattresses directly from Tochta. You have more choices and will save some money by purchasing directly from Tochta. Shipping is free. Also look online for coupons. We got a 5% discount using an online coupon. I recommend you see the Tochta website. I had previously been told by Oliver that they were no longer accepting direct shipments of purchases by owners without adding a surcharge.

A dry bath in a small camper is comprised of some "expensive" real-estate given how much actual time is spent in that shower versus that same space's other possible uses. Yes, I know of a number of people that use the shower as a storage closet, but, of course that means cleaning out the closet/shower each time you would like to use it for wet purposes. The Oliver is my first camper with a wet bath and I didn't think that I would actually be happy with it - but - I am now. The fiberglass is very easy to clean/wipe dry and the space used for the closet is much more practicable. Bill

Let's assume that for several more years that OTT is between a rock and a hard place with an exclusive contract with Domenica to provide their Hammer Mill A/C's. Was a great contract back then, but Owner expectations have changed since then. One would conclude that they are in a pickle that they can't get out of. So, until that contract expires they just keep taking unwanted beatings. My thoughts are one of condolences and a plea asking them to once again "think outside of the box", just as Mr. Oliver did when he created the first OE and OE2! If OTT were to reverse engineer a Houghton 9.5K and a 13K base plates to fit between Ollie and the A/C so as to facilitate use of the OEM internal condensate drainage line, this issue would effectively make this issue go away. It certainly would make peace with existing owners and give prospective owners a reasonable path via a full credit for not having A/C. This would also give Oliver cover with Dometic until their contract(s) run out. The cost to OTT would be some engineering and inhouse fab time. Not going to cost them anywhere the cost of having a festering wart on top of all their products. Such a path likely would be the best goodwill investment OTT has made in years. MODERATORS: Please forward this to Mr. Oliver. I would do so myself if I had the address.

Hi John, Seems like this original post went off in a fun direction but I wanted to throw my two cents in regarding the original question, and I'm looking at it from a different direction. The Oliver LEII is expensive, no question about it. It took me three years of delay before I finally laid down the money. The delay was to get confident that it was worth the money. I told myself that I could very easily get a Jayco for half the cost and be done with the whole matter. But, I was working hard at my job, saving my money, and continuing to look at other companies. When the time came to order, I went with the options I wanted (including the Lithium Pro) and tried to ignore the price. The way I figured it, I'd already decided to get one of the most expensive trailers on the market and didn't want to have any regrets down the road. So, if you want the Lithium Pro, go for it. I love my setup and it's worked very well.

This is how I ran the AC with the 2000 watt inverter. I added anther transfer switch to operate the AC circuit on my 2019 built Oliver. Posted September 7 Besides the huge improvement in the sound level there is also another area where it surpasses the Dometic AC that I had replaced. The Houghton with the compressor running draws 10 amps while the Dometic was pulling 16 amps. So I decided to install a second transfer switch for the air conditioner to test it running off the batteries. It was 11 o'clock in the morning on a cloudless sunny day the temperature was 88 degrees. I had my batteries 400 Ah fully charged with 340 watts on the roof and 230 watts remote ready to feed it. I set the thermostat at 70 degrees and turned on the AC. Once it brought the temperature down to 70 I noticed it was cycling four minutes on with the compressor and four minutes off. I left it running until about 5 o'clock and was surprised to see that the batteries were at 97 percent. So I was happy with those results but time will tell if that is the norm. I put the picture in to also show it's nice low profile. Paul

Replacing our AC is near the top of my mods list. We’ve been complaining for years about the noise, it has even influenced our camping locations… we tend to go to much cooler climates and endure the AC while we’re escaping the Texas heat. Although loud, it does cool the trailer down pretty quick. We’ve camped in 100+ degree weather and ran the AC on low. Ear plugs help! Mike

I bet it would be possible to put the microwave in your unit. However, there certainly would be challenges. High Pointe makes a variety of units. The question is would you be happy with the final appearance? I believe the unit requires a deeper 'hole' so that you would have to build out an adapter plate on the front to hide the hole cutout. Also it would have to be strong enough so the micro doesn't float out going down the road. Also I wonder if additional supports would be required inside the hole and how that would be secured?Then there is the question of whether or not your batteries can provide enough power when boondocking. Maybe it would be time to trade your unit in for a new one?

Obviously everyone is thrilled with the overall package, myself included. However, as an option to new owners, they could have a different unit available. Just think in a year we could be reading a thread just like this showing the company’s/customer favorite option. An AC unit that is dramatically quieter that uses a lot less power. Thus allowing a full blown lithium upgrade to really shine. Make the option $2k and customers will still gladly pay IMO.

Apologies if my comments were construed as a criticism of anyone's trailer, or of Olivers in general. Oliver makes two of the best RVs on the market, which is why we're selling our current fifth wheel and buying one. Likewise, the use of the word "cheap" in my final sentence was not intended as a criticism of the A/C quality, but of my theory that OTT may be able to source the Dometics for less money. But that air conditioner is loud. Louder than any of our previous RVs. That's not Oliver's fault, per se. The roof is lower, the space is smaller, and the A/C isn't ducted, so it's just... loud. It's a side effect of the overall design and construction. Still, it is a downside for those who will be camping in hot, humid climes. Is it a deal breaker? Not for us. Olivers have many other positives that outweigh the negatives. Even so, I can see where there might be potential customers who would consider it a deal breaker to not be able to watch TV at a comfortable volume with the A/C on. So, it would be nice if it could be addressed, even as an upcharge option.

FWIW, Dometic, nor any other brand ac, is actually "cheap." They all cost over 1k. The Dometic equivalent of my unit was more expensive, considering the Houghton comes with the adu (interior unit), and Dometic and most others are priced separately. We had the original Dometic in our trailer for 13 seasons. It always worked. It also drained through the Oliver drain lines. I don't think any of the other brands, to date, have that facility. I would say it's true that getting Dometic units has seemed to be a reliable supply chain for Oliver. That's an important factor for a manufacturer. But, i wouldn't regard that as a cost savings, by any means. Do I love that my Houghton replacement streams water down the rear of the trailer? No. But, it fit my size requirements for our self-installed bigger solar panels. It's narrower (which we needed), but longer, which might interfere with Oliver's current panels, with shadowing. IDK. I could have saved $$$ by installing a second fan, instead of ac, for as seldom as we use ac. Unfortunately, the majority of the US accepts the noisier ac in most cases, so the big guys don't spend a lot on bringing the quieter, more efficient European/Australian available units here. I see that changing, as Dometic has brought one of their quieter units in, as a retrofit only, perhaps as a test. Truma has entered the US market. As has Houghton. Coleman ndq is making some advances, though I think supply chain is still tough. Keep asking. Eventually, something will work. In the meantime, yes, it would be nice if service were allowed to install the Houghton. But then, who warrants it? Will there be parts availability? That's a much bigger deal for them, than for us, as individual owners.

I'm assuming they have a pricing deal with Dometic that involves bulk purchasing a certain number of Dometic products every year. Which is fine. However, they are marketing a top line product to a discriminating niche market that is willing to pay a premium to get upscale items. Since this keeps coming up as a customer complaint, it would seem reasonable to offer an optional upgrade. If they stray too far toward economies of scale they risk becoming just another RV manufacturer in a sea of competitors. Why risk losing sales over a cheap A/C unit?

We have been asking this for many years. I ordered mine (Hull 218) with an Atwood Air Command 9.5k as a zero cost custom option, it is way more quiet. They no longer do requests like this, but I do not understand why they continue to use the noisy brand which NOBODY likes. John Davies Spokane WA

I love my Oliver. I wish it was possible to change out the standard microwave for the convection oven, but service told me that was not possible as the size of the hole in the fiberglass is different. I wish that Oliver would look into an offer a AC unit that is not so noisy? Has/is Oliver looked into this possibility of a quiter AC unit?

Us, too. July delivery. Just sayin'...

My wife and I have a 2022 Elite II on order for late summer delivery. The upgrades referenced in your post are much appreciated. We would be thrilled if you offered one more upgrade: a quieter air conditioner. A number of Oliver owners posting on this forum have replaced their stock Dometic Penguin II AC units with Houghton/Rec Pro or Coleman Mach 10 NDQ units. They report that these are MUCH quieter than the Dometic, which has been compared to a "lawnmower in your trailer" or even a "jet engine." If you can find a way to offer a quieter AC unit for a reasonable upgrade price, we want one! Ralph Pond

All great stuff! Thank you for all you do to build a quality trailer.

Outside noise is pretty much eliminated! GJ